We have seen the claim that any protein you eat in excess of your immediate needs will be turned into glucose by spontaneous gluconeogenesis ¹. (Gluconeogenesis (GNG) is the process by which glucose is made out of protein in the liver and kidneys.) Some people think that because protein can be turned into glucose, it will, once other needs are taken care of, and that therefore keto dieters should be careful not to eat too much protein.
While we believe there are valid reasons for limiting protein intake, experimental evidence does not support this one. In our opinion, it makes sense physiologically for GNG to be a demand-driven rather than supply-driven process, because of the need to keep blood glucose within tight bounds.
This is what i meant in the above post, there saying it dont while most diabetics say it does?
I sent a link to my doctor. Wonder if he'll reply.
A BIG positive outcome of the study was that calories in = calories out is wrong. Low carb has a definate metabolic advantage.
Last edited by Cryptocode; 06-20-2013 at 01:01 PM.
"When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase
It often seems to me like researchers just cannot get over their biases against certain dietary approaches and go beating the bushes for something negative to say that aligns with their prejudices.
Case in point:
Indeed, and what of it? CRP was at a mean value of 0.87 mg/L in the VLC diet, still in the low risk category for heart disease of less than 1.0 mg/L. All three diets took the subjects from having average risk, between 1.0 to 3.0 mg/L into the low risk category. The lowest level recorded with the low glycemic diet only differs from the VLC diet by 0.11 mg/dL.Originally Posted by Ebbeling et al
Meanwhile, the VLC diet crushes triglyceride levels which correlate much more closely with heart disease.
As for cortisol ... well, let's let the results speak for themselves:
So I cheated a bit to help the results speak by drawing your attention to the footnotes which say, effectively, that urinary cortisol did not differ in the three dietary approaches in a statistically significant way, i.e. it was not possible to rule out the alternative conclusion that any differences observed were strictly due to chance.
Last edited by pklopp; 06-20-2013 at 02:17 PM.
The point of the article that Dragonfly and you were discussing is that this is not due to gluconeogenesis that they get these spike and that gluconeogenesis rate is limited and dependent on demand rather than supply. Its a different mechanism still associated with high protein intake though.
For instance this response from the forum you linked seems up that alley:
"So, when you consume protein it triggers an insulin release. It also triggers a simultaneous glucagon release. On balance, in a normal system, glucose stays about the same with the balance of those two forces. No glucose is produced from the protein or from the glucagon. Rather, it relies on glucose stored (as glycogen) in the liver. Insulin stops the liver from releasing it, glucagon commands the liver to release it. So, it relies on there being glycogen stored in the liver. Barring that, no spike can result from glucagon.
As was pointed out, the glucose in question cannot come from protein you just ate because it can't happen that fast. But, if the glucagon/insulin ratio is out of wack and/or the liver is unresponsive to insulin in particular (that's called "hepatic insulin resistance"), the liver can dump its stored glucose more than it should (obeying the glucagon but ignoring the insulin which should compensate), raising blood sugar.
What works for many is depleting those glycogen stores in the liver. This can be done via VLCK (note the 'K') eating. Getting BOTH dietary sources of glucose (carbs and protein) low enough will still getting ample energy from food (fats are all that's left), you should be able to deplete those stores. You can get a blood ketone meter for free with 2 strips. If your ketones are always above 0.5 and mostly above 1.0, you're in.
So, since your carbs are very low, the glycogen you are storing must have come mostly from protein you ate. That means that the spike you witnessed was indeed from protein, but protein you ate BEFORE (which got converted to glucose and stored), not the one you just ate. The one just eaten may have just contributed to it being incorrectly released from the liver. "
Last edited by Neckhammer; 06-20-2013 at 02:41 PM.