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Thread: Want to go Primal? Drop the wife or husband (Rule #11) page 14

  1. #131
    eig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliphian View Post
    A lot of people would say to find somebody that you can stand to be around all the time. I was lucky enough to instead find a person that I can't stand to be apart from for any length of time. If the cost to keep this is monogamy, then so be it.
    This. Exactly how my s.o. and I feel.
    "...You sort of start thinking anything's possible if you've got enough nerve.” -Ginny

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  2. #132
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    Research shows that both men and women have short- and long-term strategies for mating. In addition, monogamy is not a societal compromise but is something that evolved to provide children who have long juvenile periods with biparental care that is crucial. Men and women both have psychological mechanisms to maintain monogamous relationships. However, serial monogamy or polygamy are other strategies. It all depends on individuals' internal and external environments.

    So, if you're currently feeling like having multiple partners - great. But that doesn't mean that everyone should. Some people can be happily monogamous.
    "It is never too late to be what you might have been" - George Eliot

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  3. #133
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    "Serial monogamy" is euphemism. If I change partners every week, am I a serial monogamist? Its a bullshit gray zone.

    It's just a euphemism used to conceal our NON monogamous nature. If we were monogamous we'd mate for life, like pigeons.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidil View Post
    "Serial monogamy" is euphemism. If I change partners every week, am I a serial monogamist? Its a bullshit gray zone.

    It's just a euphemism used to conceal our NON monogamous nature. If we were monogamous we'd mate for life, like pigeons.
    Scientific study has revealed that nearly every animal once thought to be strictly monogamous is actually... not really.
    There are a select few that are still thought to be mostly monogamous with some exceptions, but for the most part it's the same as humans where it's a gradient.

    Both we and the animals do what functions best at the time.
    A female bluebird may well pick the niftiest nest builder, a male bird who is a little older and has more experience... but then take an opportunity to also grab some genes from a bird that is in peak health if she can.
    Her nest will have eggs from both most likely. And it's in her interest not to devote all of her eggs to one genetic basket.
    Same for guys in the evolutionary game... there were reasons for both sides.
    However. Those points are moot since we are now actively working to prevent that scenario in the human case.

    Most Americans actually go through what is a very natural progression of sexual periods from sexual experimentation in their youth which may include hooking up and such, to then having some steady trial partners that last a little time but are not serious, to longer term monogamous relationships lasting a year or two. These may be living separate or cohabiting, married or not. As we age we tend to form longer and more stable relationships... which (and you may find this shocking) are often very rewarding for the people in them.

    My husband and I both had lots of sex when we were young. We didn't settle down early and we went through the progression... we both were a bit wild. I was extremely non-monogamous for a while and into kink/alternative lifestyles. Then we both had a test run long term relationship or two where we really weren't quite settled down yet, those lasted a little while longer than just dating people and fun, but not more than a couple of years. When we met we were both at the point where we knew we were ready for something different... and we've been happily married and monogamous for almost 15 years now, together over 16. Or sex life is still really good, and not "boring" at all. We still laugh and have fun and don't fight about anything really... I don't think occasionally disagreeing about things count as there is no tension or argument about that. We have pretty much the lowest stress relationship you can imagine even though we've been through some very tough things together. We are simply very happy not having sex with, or seeking sex from, other people. At a certain point in life it feels good to share love AND sex AND history AND the future. Maybe that's what makes us so happy.

    Religion tends to try and shame people away from this natural progression because it promotes a different plan(that whole stupid celibate until marriage thing etc), yet it still happens... and has pretty much always happened.
    I have no doubt that it's pretty damned normal for most young people to swap up partners a lot in their sexual experimentation and relationship learning processes... but I also have no doubt that it's pretty normal for most people to gravitate to one on one relationships as they mature. I'm not saying all of those are going to last "forever"... just that its seriously a normal thing.
    Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. And those people are cool too.

    And ... No.
    Hittin it for a week is not a relationship...
    That's pretty obvious.
    I don't know of anyone who would consider that "serial monogamy".
    Last edited by cori93437; 06-24-2013 at 12:49 AM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
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  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidil View Post
    I'm in vacation town at the moment, in Cyprus.

    Half the girls I slept with in the last month are married or have a boyfriend.

    Not only that I don't see any moral problem here, on the contrary, I feel like I'm doing these girls a service in helping them maintain thier relationship and live out thier fantasy.

    Did you know that about 10% of people are born NOT from who they think thier father is? In some societies its 30%. Google it. They discovered it when they started testing people for transplants....

    "Oh, we're sorry sir, actually your son is not yours. Your wife was banging someone from the side. Sorry! "


    Don't take it from me. Google it.

    Had my #76 last night... to my 100th I'll make a special badge or something. And this is in just two years. Am I looking for justification? Maybe... but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. You're also trying to justify your lifestyle.

    Uhh, would you care to cite the study that states "10%" of people are born NOT from who they think their father is.
    Throughout this whole thread you've done nothing but pull fake statistics out of your @ss.

    But thank you for doing the women of a world a service by being their fantasy. Enjoy it while it lasts mate. Wait until your a saggy old man who cant get any women because your no longer anyone's fantasy, and when you find a decent women, she runs away after seeing your 'special badge' LOL

    You come across as a massive douche bro.

  6. #136
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    I just want to point out that isn't Mark from MARKS DAILY APPLE. The guy who created this website, who soaks up everything 'Grok' like it was crack in a LONG term marriage....

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidil View Post
    "Serial monogamy" is euphemism. If I change partners every week, am I a serial monogamist? Its a bullshit gray zone.

    It's just a euphemism used to conceal our NON monogamous nature. If we were monogamous we'd mate for life, like pigeons.
    It is a gray zone but I don't think it's bullshit. It is a compromise that I make with modern day reality.

    Modern day reality is different than a nice friendly tribe where everyone knew everybody and they hadn't invented AIDS yet. Modern reality for a female to go out and be sowing wild oats is a bit dangerous. There are creepy people and creepy diseases out there.

    If you find a good one you can trust, both get tested, then you can dispense with the latex which makes everything nicer. You just don't have to pledge your troth til death. If things are not working out well and the feeling is gone, you both move on with no recriminations.

    This is the compromise that I have found works for me in the world we live in.

  8. #138
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    Personally, I find that much of being 'primal' in the way Mark describes it is having happiness and peace-of-mind. I am far happier in a committed relationship with a person I truely care about than I am chasing tail.
    somehow I manage to leave my intelligence and decorum at the door wherever I go. I doubt your journal will be an exception to that - not on the rug

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  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidil View Post
    "Serial monogamy" is euphemism. If I change partners every week, am I a serial monogamist? Its a bullshit gray zone.

    It's just a euphemism used to conceal our NON monogamous nature. If we were monogamous we'd mate for life, like pigeons.
    Being naturally monogamous, I'd have to disagree that humans are universally non-monogamous. I have never been sexually attracted to anyone I knew personally (yes, certain actors looked "hot" when I was a teen, but meeting people who were attractive in photographs usually put me off them, so I'd guess it would have still been the same for famous folks). It wasn't like I hadn't met many people (I've lived in seven different cities and 19 different houses across the UK and Spain) or I hadn't met attractive people. I just wasn't interested. I never went through the peer-pressure based "initiation" most people do and subsequently never developed a desire for a sexual relationship with another human.
    I met my fiance online and formed an emotional bond with him, so we started dating even before we'd met in person. After that I found myself sexually attracted to him. When we met face-to-face he smelled amazing, something I'd never noticed in another human. And obviously we eventually had sex. After a few years of the "normal couple stuff" we're engaged. I don't think I could engage in sex with any other human in my life.

    I think the problem is that, when you have sex for the first time outside an emotional relationship (which wouldn't have happened in a tribal scenario, where one-night-stands would be impossible, as you knew everyone), you associate it with personal pleasure and not human interaction. And, when you have sex for the first time with someone you're bonded to, the oxytocin release will encourage you to stay with them. If that relationship fails, it then weakens the impact of subsequent sexually-released oxytocin, the same way exposure to porn, sugar or drugs numbs your reception of them. This means that when you start a relationship immaturely and have sex inside that relationship (be it a one-night-stand or a teenage relationship formed due to weak social bonding), you're "defusing" your natural potential for monogamy. This probably serves a purpose, otherwise we would have lost it. But it doesn't change the fact that humans (and females especially) have natural potential to be monogamous
    Last edited by Kochin; 06-24-2013 at 11:27 AM.
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  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kochin View Post
    I think the problem is that, when you have sex for the first time outside an emotional relationship (which wouldn't have happened in a tribal scenario, where one-night-stands would be impossible, as you knew everyone), you associate it with personal pleasure and not human interaction.
    This makes the assumption that one night stands would have been frowned upon. Why would they?

    /@Kochin

    I think there is a piece to the puzzle missing in this whole discussion. It has been stated that women want monogamy so that a man will stick around and protect her and her children. It has been stated that a man wants monogamy because he doesn't want to get stuck raising someone else's child.

    But both of these statements rely on the premise that early humans understood that sex==>>babies. I don't think this is necessarily so.

    Given that women often have sex without having a baby (especially when BF% is low) and that conception and figuring out that a child is on the way are rather far apart in time, I don't think this connection was really apparent.

    People have sex. Women have babies. Two separate subjects. When women have babies, the tribe raises them and life goes on.

    All our morality and social mores are rooted in the fact that we know sex could mean a baby. Caring whose baby it is only becomes an issue when there is property to be handed down, in other words, it is an economic concept.

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