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Thread: Want to go Primal? Drop the wife or husband (Rule #11) page 10

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    In the case of my wife, there is a sickness in her mind that says that "loving her" means that my penis does not exist in 3-dimensions, nor is it networked to dimensions of my psychology and physiology, but rather is a Disney magic wand that is conjured for her own emotional validation. (which I believe to be a common malady infecting the minds of a great many, and to be generally representative of the regular population)
    Well, I have to say that I disagree... not about your wife since I don't know her at all but at your view of the regular population. I don't take any personal offense if my husband admires another woman. I'm likely admiring her too. It typically takes dedication to oneself to look good. Some are born with an innate ability, but most have to at least watch what they eat and exercise. I think the human body is an amazing thing. Now, I don't advocate infidelity and I have no intention of sleeping with anyone other than my husband. Not just because I made a death do us part promise but because I don't desire the other more than I desire him. I don't think I'm strange for this and I imagine there are many who go home to their spouse because they choose what they have over what might be.

    I'm honestly a little surprised that this discussion is still going on so avidly. I thought it would have been done yesterday.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidil View Post
    Mmmm. Typical "I'm going to shut off to reality" response.

    Most couples argue and fight about the most trivial stuff. It's all friction caused by the unnatural condition they are at, nothing more.

    Going primal is about reducing the friction between our lives and what is not natural for our mind and body.

    Again, i'm not expecting anybody who is thinking about these things for the first time to agree with me. It took me months to wrap my mind around this shit.
    your arguments about relationships don't make much sense....so are you saying when people argue, ie trivial stuff, it is caused by some unnatural conditions present? Does your formula only apply to sexual relationships? What about trivial arguments between siblings, or other family members? With your thought process, relationships overall shouldn't exist if trivial arguments potentially might ensue.

    Dude, just do whatever floats your boat....but don't presume that you know what it's all about. You are only doing what you know to do...maybe you just don't know the formulas for other relationships.

  3. #93
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    So much of modern day life is stressful and unnatural from noise levels, to pollution, to sitting in a cubicle all day. A lot of people are stressed out and ready to bite each other's heads off for a lot of reasons.

    I don't think that opening up sexual relations to concepts other than lifelong monogamy would magically fix all human interaction. But yes, if one feels trapped by a promise, by social convention, by peer pressure, etc. into being monogamous when that would not be one's spontaneous choice, then yes, people will, under those circumstances find something to fight about. If you can't find something, you will make something up and fight about that.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik W View Post
    Comments to Davidil's post in red. About the only thing true in that post is that men have an instinct to father children with many women (which Davidil doesn't even say directly), but there is also a strong instinct to couple with a woman and make sure the children you have survive. It is the old quantity versus quality balance. And that is how love developed, a chemical reaction meant to make sure that couples would stay together and raise their offspring - in monogamy.



    There is a lot of research saying that we're non monogamous, that we're not designed to stay in long term relationships with just one partner.

    In the small tribes that Gork used to live in, everyone were sharing everything - the food, the security and.... sexual partners.

    No. The victors got the women, the rest were either dead or lived without women. As for sharing possessions, there is no proof that would have gone on everywhere, and there is a reason it stopped where it did go on. Such societies never see any progress, since people have no reason to increase their workload if they have to share the results with every leech in the society. Just look at the few people still living like Stone Age tribes today, which are the darlings of the "social anthropology" leftists, praised as "harmonious". Those tribes share their possessions, yes. And that is exactly why they are still stuck in the Stone Age, living short lives of hard labor, with no written language, no sense of who they are and where they are going, fearing spirits all around them as the cause of everything that happens, subjecting men, women and children to superstitious rules.... With permanent poverty comes permanent ignorance, as there is no science. It is a hard, ignorant life.

    That made sense because when everybody is sharing everything everyone is safer. Not at all, it leads to poverty and starvation. Just look at the early settlers in the northeastern USA, who starved because they started out sharing all the tools and all the food. The journals from that time showed that people stopped working because the laziest did practically nothing, so others didn't want to work either. When the land was finally divided between the families, output quickly tripled. No woman or child is dependent on ONE man. When everybody is sleeping with everybody - nobody knows who fathered who so the males protect all the children.

    Bogus theory. Why would men protect children that are not theirs? That goes against everything we know about the species. People protect their own children, and so it was in the Stone Age too.

    Monogamy was basically "invented" by the elite to organize society so private property could be accumulated and taxed, for social classes to be created, for wealth to be passed on from one generation to the next. Monogamy is what brought us here, to the where our civilization is today, but it is no longer necessary.

    Typical Marxist crap taught in "sociology" classes and the like. As if some evil plotters in the Stone Age would invent monogamy to start social classes. When some men had harems and others had no women, THAT was the BIGGEST "class" division of all times. We see from DNA that this is how things were at one point in the Stone Age - just a few men per tribe spreading their genes. (The fight over women is why men have bigger risktaking behavior, by the way. The risktakers would try new things, explore better hunting grounds, new methods, and dare to fight over land and women. They would either die or succeed, and when succeeding they would spread their behavior genes more than the non-risktakers.) Men have the instinct to spread their genes through many partners. However, they also have the instinct to make sure their offspring survives, which works in favor of monogamy, especially in cold and unforgiving northern climates where you can't just "spray and pray". A man had to have just a few children instead and focus on them together with his wife, achieving a division of labor between the two. With monogamy each man could have children instead of just a few harem owners. This drastically increased the number of children, and drastically increased their chances of survival as each child got more attention, training, food and protection from its parents than the children in a harem. This made sure the labor of all men, not just a few, would be invested in the upbringing of children, and that gave society a great boost forward. There is a reason religions and laws across the world, in separately evolving societies, have favored monogamous marriage. When the structure with monogamous marriages breaks down, it has strong negative consequences for the children. Children born out of wedlock have lower grades, commit more crime and lead unhealthier lives.
    Excellent points made
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  5. #95
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    I love the subtext about how if we disagree with you, we haven't "wrapped our minds around it."

    Truth be told, I'm particularly curious about human sexuality. I love to study it -- in an academic sense but also in a more casual one. For example, I was really curious about how the BDSM community works -- how it works for those individuals and also how they form their communities and relationships -- so I basically went and started hanging out and joined the community. I asked questions. I learned from their diverse experiences. I learned what it is all about.

    I support things like legalized prostitution. I think it's a great profession -- for people hwo feel called to it. Not everyone is. But I have met many women and men who are sex workers of various kinds who are really cool, interesting people who seem to thrive at their work. And, I think that work has a lot of social value (and personal value for their clients), so I feel very strongly that prostitution should be legal (also, it solves a lot of criminal issues related to the process of prostitution such as human trafficking and child trafficking).

    I have friends who are polyamorous -- and by friends I mean people whom I actually know and have dinner with and their kids and my kid hang out. It's interesting for them to talk about their lifestyle -- and how they balance the legal issues that they face, too.

    I can wrap my head around *a lot* of things.

    But guess what? None of this "needs" to be "primal" or "the way we should live because it's how we are 'designed.'"

    Instead -- and try to wrap your head around this -- it's about individual human beings making choices based on their own assessment as to what is best for themselves, their partners, and their social relationships (since it does have impact). It has nothing to do with "one way" being more natural or normal or appropriate than another or about what we "evolved" to be like, etc.

    I think it's our nature to be sexual beings, and then to act on that sexuality as we see fit based on our understanding of ourselves. When we act on that honestly, then we develop happiness.

    And if we accept people who are different -- rather than asserting that there must be something wrong with them (ie, they are dumb, blind, acculturated, uneducated etc) if they are -- then we will likewise be happier for it.
    Last edited by zoebird; 06-20-2013 at 09:58 PM.

  6. #96
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    I think I'd be happy being non monogamous but my husband wouldn't be too keen on it.

    Then again I don't actually know if that's because I'm not with my ideal partner or not... As in, if I found and married the right man would monogamy have more appeal?

    And no my husband's really a great guy but he'd make a better brother or friend or something... The relationship lacks chemistry.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Fireling View Post
    I think I'd be happy being non monogamous but my husband wouldn't be too keen on it.

    Then again I don't actually know if that's because I'm not with my ideal partner or not... As in, if I found and married the right man would monogamy have more appeal?

    And no my husband's really a great guy but he'd make a better brother or friend or something... The relationship lacks chemistry.
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  8. #98
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    I don't think it would be different in a "developed" nation. there are those who live this way and we in the US have millions of fatherless children to show for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaveBug View Post
    You couldn't pay me enough to go back to a polyandrous society. I lived in a part of Africa where polyandry (more than one wife) was commonly practiced. No one in their right mind should want to live the way those women did. Do you have any idea how hard it is for a women to raise 5+ kids (which is what you get with no birth control) when the man decides he wants to move on to a new wife? Malnutrition is extremely common in those children. Also, when the men do come back to the women, which they usually do at some point, the women have no way of knowing who they slept with or what they could have contracted which is why HIV/AIDS is so high there.

    Sure monogomy isn't for everyone and sure, you could argue that it would be different in a developed nation, but I've seen it play out and it probably isn't what you think it's like.
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  9. #99
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    By your logic I should have no problem bringing home women, lets say every other day, and having sex with them on the couch and in front of my wife (as she is studying for a test) and son (as he is playing with legos) and to truly discard the "elite's" brainwashing we can become like many people in New Guinea where men live separate from women, only have sex with women to have children and for pleasure use young boys. No reason to limit what and who sex is done with, we should be "fluid" Also, according to you we need to forget how babies are made and fabricate and imagine that it takes many men, my wife will be able to create my son's next sibling with group sex events on the patio, (modesty is engineered by the elite) while I cook up some dinner for us on the barbeque. good times. Or, perhaps you are just trying to justify and recreate a very narrow view of sexuality that keeps in place many mores and just allows you to screw around without any responsibility.
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouaouaron View Post
    By your logic I should have no problem bringing home women, lets say every other day, and having sex with them on the couch and in front of my wife (as she is studying for a test) and son (as he is playing with legos) and to truly discard the "elite's" brainwashing we can become like many people in New Guinea where men live separate from women, only have sex with women to have children and for pleasure use young boys. No reason to limit what and who sex is done with, we should be "fluid" Also, according to you we need to forget how babies are made and fabricate and imagine that it takes many men, my wife will be able to create my son's next sibling with group sex events on the patio, (modesty is engineered by the elite) while I cook up some dinner for us on the barbeque. good times. Or, perhaps you are just trying to justify and recreate a very narrow view of sexuality that keeps in place many mores and just allows you to screw around without any responsibility.
    you have an interesting imagination
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