how did Grok die? page

[pieter d]

As most primal people (I guess), I like to do some thinking and 'research' of my own, if I encounter some questions. MDA has been a wonderful resource for this.


One question I had recently: 'How did Grok die'?


Probably mainly because of trauma (being eaten, hunting accidents, ...) or calamities and maybe infectious diseases (although they probably caused more deads after the domestication of animals (see Jared Diamonds wonderful book Guns, germs and steel).


But, if trauma/calamities/infections didn't kill Grok, how did he die?


Searching the internet did not answer my question. I also tried looking at how wild animals die in their natural environment. There's also not a lot of information on this.


Does anybody know what dieing of 'old age' really means?


thanks,


Pieter

[Karin]

Dying of old age? I guess it means living with a generalized gradual deterioration of organ function until an acute trauma or illness comes along that overwhelms their diminished capacity. I think there's also a "domino effect" where dysfunction in one system destabilizes others until several vital organs are not working adequately...

[Paneristi]

Orangutans and Chimps Gorillas in the wild tend to live until 45 or so - I guess when their teeth finally rot and fall out they can't chew and they die - if we didnt see dentists we would probably have no teeth by 45 ...

[FlyNavyWife]

Paneristi, you really think we'd have no teeth at 45 (with no dentists or fluoridated water)? I'm not sure... especially without all the grains and sugars, our teeth would be in much better shape, right?

[Mick]

[quote]

One question I had recently: &#39;How did Grok die&#39;?</blockquote>


Ask Mark. He&#39;s his character. :-)


I think people in hunter-gatherer communities might die from accident or illness. I think sometimes they grew to a ripe old age but eventually became too enfeebled to move with their band. But moving was necessary: hunters must follow the game. When that happened among the Bushmen they gave the elderly person or people some food and water and set a temporary shelter up for them. There would be goodbyes and the band would go. Everyone knew that the old people would decline as the food and water ran out, and a predator would eventually move in. They knew; the people leaving them knew. I believe there was regret and sadness but little drama, because everyone also knew the young needed food if life was to carry on.

[Katt]

No teeth? Most of the fossil skeletons seen have plenty of teeth...


Also, many animals tend to crawl off somewhere to hide and die, when they are too sick or old, if it is not by brute trauma.

[kjake55]

Korg killed him!

[Mick]

It&#39;s possible to get some references on the scenario I posit. I tried googling using the following keywords:


anthropology abandon "old people"


http://www.google.com/search?&q=anth...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[grandma]

this all sounds a bit like Logan&#39;s run.


I suspect that accidental death rates were lower than they are today. Animal attacks were probably also somewhat rare, I doubt grok was hunted by carnivores. Grok and carnivores may competed for the same kill, but I suspect Grok rarely made it a life or death battle. Murder, who knows, probably. Grok would be more likely to fight with a neighbor than a tiger.


Grok died of what we die of, infection, disease, and starvation. Things brought on by poor nutrition and stress - surprise, surprise. When food was available, he was healthy. When it wasn&#39;t he suffered. Winter was hard, drought was harder. It has also been observed in bones that he suffered from arthritis. That&#39;s right an inflammatory disease! Lets face it, at times Grok had to "over train" he had to lift heavy and carry heavy things day in and day out, there were no rest days.


It doesn&#39;t mean that living the Grok way is wrong, it just means that life was hard for Grok. We are trying to learn (remember) how to live like Grok in the best of times, not replicate all aspects of his life. Doing so would shorten yours.


My $.02

[OnTheBayou]

granny, the consensus today is that once past childhood, many paleolithic people lived long lives. Women did die in childbirth, and accidents of living happened with regularity.


Just saw a show a month ago about the Neanderthals and the early homo sapiens. The former were MUCH more prone to accidents in hunting because they could only figure out how to get close to a giant camel, say, to kill it, but the hs&#39;s could stay back with their bows and airborne spears. The N&#39;s show lots of broken bones and probable deaths from hunting, the hs&#39;s not so much.


There&#39;s that matter of average lifespan vs. average age at death. Two very, very different statistics. Right here in the good ole USA one hundred years ago the average lifespan was barely more than biblical, about 45. But with the advent of public health measures like good water and sewers, this skyrocketed upward. Medicine plays a role, too, but it&#39;s less than most people think.