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Thread: Is Stephan Guyenet suggesting Gary Taubes is wrong re insulin resistance? page

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    sting's Avatar
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    Is Stephan Guyenet suggesting Gary Taubes is wrong re insulin resistance?

    High circulating insulin is probably an adaptive response to insulin resistance in the body, which develops as fat cells enlarge and become less effective at trapping fatty acids and keeping them where they should be (there may also be a contribution from inflammation that may or may not be independent of the changes in fatty acid handling). Elevated insulin is probably the body's way of trying to compensate for this defect and keep fat in fat cells, but it does not fully compensate for the insulin resistance in fat tissue that progressively develops as fat cells enlarge. Evelyn Kocur has written about this quite a bit. This defect can be largely reversed by fat loss, as demonstrated by the fact that a number of fat loss diets, including low-carbohydrate, low-fat and calorie restriction diets lead to improved insulin action as long as sufficient fat is lost.

    I have pointed out the reasons why the carbohydrate-insulin-fat hypothesis is not generally considered viable by the scientific community. I feel I have convinced those who are able to be convinced. I can't convince everyone, and that's all right. It's time for me to move on from this topic, and on to more useful things!
    Read more Whole Health Source: Fat Tissue Insulin Sensitivity and Obesity

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    Could you point out the disconnect from Taubes for those of us slow on the uptake. I don't recall right off where Taubes would disagree with this. I don't really see it as a controversial statement from any direction actually.
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    Stephen said "I have pointed out the reasons why the carbohydrate-insulin-fat hypothesis is not generally considered viable by the scientific community"

    Gary Tubes said if you eat carbs you raise insulin which stores glucose into the fat cells, when you lower insulin it can start burning fat, so while insulin is high you cant lose weight as its storing it instead of burning.

    Stephen also says

    This study confirms, ironically, that insulin does not regulate the net fatty acid flux of fat cells. Even if reducing insulin increases fat release from fat cells, if the fat is not burnt, it just does a loop through the circulation and ends up right back where it started. This is partially because insulin is not the main factor controlling fat re-incorporation into fat cells-- that job seems to be held by acylation-stimulating protein (ASP).
    Worth reading the whole link which is in the OP

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    Hmmm... He really says CAN'T lose weight? It just seems like a very ignorant mistake and I'd be surprised, but it's been a while since I read he Good Calories Bad Calories. Lots of people with high insulin lose weigh--of course their insulin is still high as they start losing and yet they do lose--so it would be startling for a reasonable person to miss that brute force fact.
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    Yup he should move on....Its an old pissing contest between those two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loafingcactus View Post
    Hmmm... He really says CAN'T lose weight? It just seems like a very ignorant mistake....
    Well insulin almost totally inhibits lypolosis at very low levels. But anyway that looks like a little blurb likely out of context and also because not in quotes.... who knows what was said. Not to mention that just saying "high" isn't specific enough. Its quite possible that someone who loses weight while having high insulin simply lived with higher insulin previous to said weight reduction. Then there's cumulative and frequency of insulin response to consider. And insulin isn't the only player. And on and on we go.

    LOL and to OP this is from over two years ago when the pissing contest started. Taubes took Stephan to task at some ASH conference by asking some pointed questions regarding his new hypothesis (food reward). Taubes was a bit of a dick about it. Stephan didn't like it. He posted some "your hypothesis isn't God either posts". Back and forth for a while.... Yada yada yada.....Glad this isn't anything recent. That would just make it sad.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 06-16-2013 at 01:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loafingcactus View Post
    Hmmm... He really says CAN'T lose weight?
    Not sure if he used those exact words but yes he suggested when insulin is high you cant lose weight.

    First I am in no way saying Gary is wrong, or Stephen is right, or the other way around, I'm just reading blogs and asking the a question as to what others think.

    I started another thread before i posted this and i basically was confused about something else regarding insulin resistance and fatty cell storage, so will post it here and combine both threads together..

    I'm interested in this because i think what we eat is super important, but i also think knowing what and how your body prefers as fuel and how it works regarding losing weight is just as important. I mean we were told to eat high carbs to lose wight, than Garry said its low carbs because of insulin sensitivity.

    anyway here is the question i asked on the other thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by sting View Post
    Dr. Eades wrote



    I don't understand this? - how i understand it is when ones blood sugar is high insulin comes in and starts clearing the pathways by depositing the excess glucose into the fat cells, i read it a few times but don't get it, why is it not depositing glucose into the fat cells of skinny people? because they develop insulin resistance in their fat cells, but if the insulin is high it has to store fat somewhere don't it? where does the excess go then if it don't go to their fat cells?

    Or why don't the skinny people become insulin resistant and store fat if they are always eating sugary foods and there blood sugar is always high - meaning their insulin is working overtime?
    Gary says if insulin is high one cant lose weight instead he stores fat, but why doesn't this count for skinny people if their diet is high carbs over many years?

    I even read even if you eat small meals but if the meal is mainly carbs your insulin raises - so if someone is eating a high carb diet there insulin will be mostly high throughout the day, which means if Gary's theory is right why aren't they getting fatter?

    Dr. Cate even said

    More than 10-20 grams of carbs per meal will block fat-burning until the carb is stored or burned
    - if you eat more than 30 g of carb per day your fat-burning enzymes may be shut down all day
    Keeping carbs between 30-70% a day will awaken those fat burning enzymes
    So huh???

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    So I think this is partly a word game- someone playing the can't vs. harder so then they can score their points I guess.

    Partly it is the mythological person- discussed on the other thread.

    And partly it is this: Very skinny people who eat high carb DON'T have high blood sugar and insulin all day. They efficiently pack away those carbs and move on. I've mentioned before I had a friend test his blood after eating a Subway footlong and it was under 100. Like, if I touch food I’m over 100, so everything about our experience of food is very different.
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    what are you on about? Stephan Guyenet is the guy suggesting Gary is wrong not me, i'm a newbie to this and just asking a question.
    Last edited by sting; 06-16-2013 at 02:25 PM.

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    Sigh, people think I'm trying to pick a fight when I'm not even trying.

    I'm not trying to pick a fight- I was addressing the topic. Someone = this Guyenet dude.
    “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
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