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Thread: Nikola Tesla: Oatmeal > Meat page 17

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamienMaddox View Post
    My point and I believe j3nn's point is just this. If there were an alternative in-vitro meat available that was identical to living animal meat, would there be any reason not to eat that instead? When that alternative is available, wouldn't that be a positive thing? And would such an alternative ever happen if nobody ate animal meat without feeling reservations about it (aside from motivations due to scarcity)?
    I find it immoral to pretend we're not subject to the same set of laws of nature as everything else. And whatever raw materials test tube meat is made from, it represents a denial of that fact. How could it be more ethical to deny our place in the community of life than to accept it? Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. To take our place in the community of life is not immoral, but pretending the earth is our dominion and that we can assign our arbitrary rules of morality to it is perverse to me. In other words, you can take your test tube meat and ingest it backwards.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamienMaddox View Post
    My point and I believe j3nn's point is just this. If there were an alternative in-vitro meat available that was identical to living animal meat, would there be any reason not to eat that instead? When that alternative is available, wouldn't that be a positive thing? And would such an alternative ever happen if nobody ate animal meat without feeling reservations about it (aside from motivations due to scarcity)?
    There is a level of unnaturalness in the idea of invitro meat that is inherently repugnant to me
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  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kochin View Post
    There is something of the sort available, but, as is the case with vegetation, supplements...etc, it's not possible to create it without harming any animals at all. Plus, it's expensive as fuck, a limited resource and they're only growing muscle meats.
    Rearing an animal on a bit of land still wins out on ethics. Eating the whole beast still wins out on health. Conventional meat still wins out on accessibility. I doubt we'll see that change much in our lifetimes.

    As far as positive and negative: think about the benefits of herd-farming (Someone Give This Man A Nobel Prize Already. He), of how great and urban the human population is becoming and how we affect our ecosystems. Growing meat in-vitro may feed more of us and allow us to continue to live even after there's no wild ecosystems left. Every step towards lab-grown sustenance is a step towards the death of farming. And, if we can purify our air (or stop polluting), don't need plants or animals anymore, but have exploded as a population, what do you think will happen?
    There would be no more wild animals, no more farm animals, just the urban sprawl, humans and pets, all sustained by laboratories which grow our food in boxes, factories that make beds that supply D3 and machines that exercise us and plants that filter our air and water. Nothing would have to die unnecessarily. But nothing would really live either. I view that as an abomination and would much rather see a future where we return to primitive, violent tribalism and live in harmony with nature.
    The big picture, in this department, is quite horrifying, to be honest.
    This is right thinking. Vegetarianism in all its forms is based on wrong thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kochin View Post
    As far as positive and negative: think about the benefits of herd-farming (Someone Give This Man A Nobel Prize Already. He), of how great and urban the human population is becoming and how we affect our ecosystems. Growing meat in-vitro may feed more of us and allow us to continue to live even after there's no wild ecosystems left. Every step towards lab-grown sustenance is a step towards the death of farming. And, if we can purify our air (or stop polluting), don't need plants or animals anymore, but have exploded as a population, what do you think will happen?
    As quality of life increases, human population actually tends to decline. In first world countries the death rate already exceeds the birth rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kochin View Post
    There would be no more wild animals, no more farm animals, just the urban sprawl, humans and pets, all sustained by laboratories which grow our food in boxes, factories that make beds that supply D3 and machines that exercise us and plants that filter our air and water. Nothing would have to die unnecessarily. But nothing would really live either. I view that as an abomination and would much rather see a future where we return to primitive, violent tribalism and live in harmony with nature.
    The big picture, in this department, is quite horrifying, to be honest.
    There isn't any evidence that suggests that kind of future is likely.

    On the contrary, if technology continues to improve exponentially as it does today, it is far more likely that in the future we would be terraforming other planets and populating them with more animals, than it would be for your darker future to pan out.

  5. #165
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    I think paleo, and Primal Blueprint, would be much more effective and healthful, if people generally ate more vegetables. Mark's Big-Ass Salad is an appeal to this concept, but seriously, how many people do a BAS every day and how many of our BAS' are loaded with a wide variety of fresh veggies? Sourcing quality, fresh veggies every day is hard work. Unless you have access to a daily salad bar, most of us probably aren't getting all the veggies we need. Then when you throw in the fact that veggies need to be prepared in meticulous ways to match the nutrient and vitamins contained, it makes it even more difficult--some veggies are best steamed, some roasted, boiled, juiced or raw.

    I think if somebody could put together a really awesome vegan diet, and then add some meat, you'd have a helluva diet there!

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    I think if somebody could put together a really awesome vegan diet, and then add some meat, you'd have a helluva diet there!
    I think pescetarian diets are pretty legit; I believe that's what Mark Sisson's wife adheres to last I gathered. Eggs, dairy, bivalves, honey, shellfish, and all the plants you like -- you're good to go.
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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    I think if somebody could put together a really awesome vegan diet, and then add some meat, you'd have a helluva diet there!
    Unfortunately, in order for a vegan diet to be "really awesome" as a vegan diet, it really needs soy and wheat products. Adding meat at that point wouldn't much help undo the harm done from those. And leaving them out means a vegan diet that is very constricted.

    If I had somebody fixing me a couple of big-ass salads a day, and vegetables and fruit, I'd be eating mass quantities, for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
    Sweet Jeezabel, we're in a paleo/Primal forum and people are whining about eating meat being icky?
    We're in a paleo/Primal forum and "people" are whining about meat being icky. Fixed that for you.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    I find it immoral to pretend we're not subject to the same set of laws of nature as everything else.
    In my opinion that is probably the most irrational opinion that has been expressed in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    And whatever raw materials test tube meat is made from, it represents a denial of that fact. How could it be more ethical to deny our place in the community of life than to accept it?
    The raw materials test tube meat is made from is no different from the raw materials that biological meat is made from. There are a finite number of elements available to make things out of. To say that test tube meat would *have to* be different from organic meat is like saying that ice frozen outside in the winter is somehow different from that same water being frozen in a freezer.

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. To take our place in the community of life is not immoral, but pretending the earth is our dominion and that we can assign our arbitrary rules of morality to it is perverse to me. In other words, you can take your test tube meat and ingest it backwards.
    If energy cannot be destroyed, then that would contradict that life is death. So far no one has proven that energy can be destroyed.

    It is the nature of life to evolve. You are suggesting we go against that core function of life. If life on earth has any hope to survive the ultimate death of the sun, it will have to advance beyond a society that requires raising animals to slaughter for energy.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    I think pescetarian diets are pretty legit; I believe that's what Mark Sisson's wife adheres to last I gathered. Eggs, dairy, bivalves, honey, shellfish, and all the plants you like -- you're good to go.
    You think keeping dairy cows is more humane than keeping meat cattle? Aren't bivalves and shellfish animals?

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodorchid View Post
    There is a level of unnaturalness in the idea of invitro meat that is inherently repugnant to me
    You are surrounded by unnatural things. The keyboard you type on does not occur naturally. The dishes you eat on do not occur naturally. There are beverages, condiments, and many other things that people ingest that do not occur naturally.

    Chances are that you will not know the difference between invitro meat and organic meat unless it is labeled.

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