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Thread: Amish rejection of CW page

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    texas.grok's Avatar
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    Amish rejection of CW

    I'm not wanting to start the whole "should we vaccinate or not" debate but this article is interesting in an overall sense of the Amish pretty much shun all CW ways including vaccinations.

    Hard work, whole foods (perhaps not all primal but still...), rise when the sun rises, sleep when it sets.

    Sounds pretty darn primal to me.

    The Amish Don't Get Autism and They Don't Get Vaccinated... Possible Link? » Survival and Beyond
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    The Amish live a bit less Primally than you might think, at least in this area of Ohio. We live amongst a decently large community in my little corner, my special-needs daughter goes to her special-needs-only school with several of the community's kids, and we have struck up a friendship with one family in particular to the point of private invitations back and forth between our homes.

    The Amish in this area take regular shopping benders to WalMart, their kids do get ear infections to the point of needing PE tubes (which they do get), I see them at the Cleveland Clinic (where I take my kid) as a matter of course, and since I regularly shop at an Amish-owned Amish-run salvage grocery (they get deliveries of non-homegenized local milk and local eggs which I buy) I see loads of them come to stock up on regular grocery store boxed factory food as that is what the store sells. I am acquainted with another family well enough to know that the mom is on an antidepressant and may be for life - husband told me. The last guy I talked to (he had parked his horse and buggy in the woods at the end of my driveway, and for two days I saw that rig in the exact same spot but never a driver so I hit the woods looking for him on the morning of the second day as I thought he might be lying in the woods somewhere needing help - turns out he was logging and just arrived at dawn each day) had icky rotten teeth. Many are seriously on the short side, men included, to the point that it literally turns my head when I spy a 6-foot Amish man. And I swap dietary war stories and recipes with a couple of Amish moms who themselves along with their kids have multiple food allergies and GI diseases.

    Small family farms do not make enough to see them through the realities of life any more, so many men work the trades away from home (which fuels a vigorous sideline job industry for Non-Amish retirees here as driving service operators) and and the women take part-time employment as house cleaners and amongst themselves as shop help at places such as that salvage grocery I frequent.

    While there is very much that I admire about their ways, the article kinda makes them sound like some super-race or something, and that is wrong.

    So while I have not seem an autistic Amish child yet, myself, either, I have seen enough suffering to know all is not perfect in their world, healthwise, either.
    I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabbcakes View Post
    The Amish live a bit less Primally than you might think, at least in this area of Ohio. We live amongst a decently large community in my little corner, my special-needs daughter goes to her special-needs-only school with several of the community's kids, and we have struck up a friendship with one family in particular to the point of private invitations back and forth between our homes.

    The Amish in this area take regular shopping benders to WalMart, their kids do get ear infections to the point of needing PE tubes (which they do get), I see them at the Cleveland Clinic (where I take my kid) as a matter of course, and since I regularly shop at an Amish-owned Amish-run salvage grocery (they get deliveries of non-homegenized local milk and local eggs which I buy) I see loads of them come to stock up on regular grocery store boxed factory food as that is what the store sells. I am acquainted with another family well enough to know that the mom is on an antidepressant and may be for life - husband told me. The last guy I talked to (he had parked his horse and buggy in the woods at the end of my driveway, and for two days I saw that rig in the exact same spot but never a driver so I hit the woods looking for him on the morning of the second day as I thought he might be lying in the woods somewhere needing help - turns out he was logging and just arrived at dawn each day) had icky rotten teeth. Many are seriously on the short side, men included, to the point that it literally turns my head when I spy a 6-foot Amish man. And I swap dietary war stories and recipes with a couple of Amish moms who themselves along with their kids have multiple food allergies and GI diseases.

    Small family farms do not make enough to see them through the realities of life any more, so many men work the trades away from home (which fuels a vigorous sideline job industry for Non-Amish retirees here as driving service operators) and and the women take part-time employment as house cleaners and amongst themselves as shop help at places such as that salvage grocery I frequent.

    While there is very much that I admire about their ways, the article kinda makes them sound like some super-race or something, and that is wrong.

    So while I have not seem an autistic Amish child yet, myself, either, I have seen enough suffering to know all is not perfect in their world, healthwise, either.
    To add to this, they also have a very limited gene pool. Not many new members from the outside, but many of the same families marrying and breeding throughout the years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    To add to this, they also have a very limited gene pool. Not many new members from the outside, but many of the same families marrying and breeding throughout the years.
    Hadn't thought about that as being a factor in their group but then you have to wonder if the medical problems they do have are a result of inbreeding?

    If it wasn't for the inbreeding/limited gene pool factor, makes me wonder how much better off they would be?
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    Quote Originally Posted by texas.grok View Post
    Hadn't thought about that as being a factor in their group but then you have to wonder if the medical problems they do have are a result of inbreeding?

    If it wasn't for the inbreeding/limited gene pool factor, makes me wonder how much better off they would be?
    Impossible to quantify but I'm sure it has had an impact on their overall health and chronic ailments! Conversely, pockets of centenarians popularly known as the blue zones have benefitted from their sometimes limited gene pools which favor vitality and longevity. It can go either way, huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by texas.grok View Post
    Hadn't thought about that as being a factor in their group but then you have to wonder if the medical problems they do have are a result of inbreeding?

    If it wasn't for the inbreeding/limited gene pool factor, makes me wonder how much better off they would be?
    Not much, as they are heavily bread and grain reliant, and have always been. They start out physically seriously strong - men, women, and children alike, muscle-wise, due to the physical nature of their lives, which is very cool, but if they trust you enough to open up, you discover a world of women treasuring herbal remedies for all kinds of complaints - just like us.

    Last summer I was up at the Amish friend's house with my steam juicer pot, juicing Concorde grape juice, and my friend halved the amount of white sugar she put into the juice just because she knows I am "healthy eating" - from 1/2 cup per 24 fl oz Ball jar to 1/4 cup. I didn't argue in the interest of building the friendship, as that was my first to-the-house invite and she thought of me without me making so much as a peep in that direction in her own home, ya know?

    Now, like I said, this applies to my corner of Ohio - I cannot speak for the Amish of Pennsylvania or any other state. I know enough that even the dialects are seriously different between PA and OH, and those two states are neighbors.
    I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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    In PA, there's a very important and famous doctor who discovered something or other to fix a genetic problem that the amish children there have (due to the limited gene pool) -- and as such has saved thousands of lives.

    Overall, the amish whom I knew in PA were all very nice people, but the diet is basically a traditional german diet with some american elements (modern etc). Most of them work in agriculture and trades, with families diversifying their economies that way (ie, father and one son manages the farm; another son goes and learns a trade; another son learns a different trade, and so on).

    Overall, the community is healthy, but they do pick and choose carefully what they do in terms of their own health and well being -- physically and spiritually.

    But not only do they not vaccinate, they also don't insure themselves in any way, seeing that as spiritually problematic. The community comes together to manage costs -- if such things arise -- and of course they often refuse a lot of care besides, simply because it goes against their core values.

    I don't begin to understand the intricacies of those decisions, though.

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    In this corner the Amish have a lot of problems finding doctors to take them on when they do actually decide to "get doctored", and my friend's experiences have been pretty dismal, even though she pays in full in cash. We traded MD war stories to the point that she finally left this county (rural) for a medical specialty practice in a nearby city, at my strenuous urging, and there she found satisfaction in ENT treatment for her kids. They are doing 500% better now (all three needed PE tubes after local docs just threw antibiotic round after antibiotic round at the kiddos) - my one kid had a lot of problems in the ears, so I kinda knew my way around.

    One disadvantage to their lifestyle is they do not seem to know a good doc from a bad doc, until quite a bit of time has passed, which most of us here, I would wager, have nearly a sixth sense about, and so get a lot of bad treatment before they decide to go further afield, if they do at all. I just have a "progressive" Amish friend - while she is fully Amish, she is no believer in ignorance, and is a crusader of sorts in the community to get relevant info out there.
    I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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