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  1. #41
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    I knew carbs were quite harmful in diabetes as they contain the excessive sugar content which might lead to deterioration of the situation.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Low carb in general impairs insulin sensitivity, not improves it. The human metabolism prefers glucose as a fuel source
    ChocoTaco369 firstly I'm no expert so just commenting what i have read online, but there is many suggesting its the other way around.

    Dr. Cate said: A minority of cell types actually do require glucose, specifically a few types of cells in the liver and cells without mitochondria (e.g., red blood cells). All other cells work perfectly well burning fat and special kinds of fat-breakdown molecules called ketone bodies. According to world-renowned metabolism expert Dr. Mary Vernon, we need 30 gm (2 Tbsp) of glucose per day to keep those cells that prefer glucose running properly. That small amount can readily be supplied by the conversion of protein to glucose in a metabolic process carried out through a cooperation between the liver and kidney, called gluconeogenesis. Your body requires ZERO grams of dietary carb. What little glucose your body requires (30gm) you can generate yourself from an ounce of protein.


    Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 Most traditional societies are high carb. Humanity began and evolved in areas where fruits and starches were common and fatty animals were rare.
    And yes Humans did eat starches and fruits but how much and not processed like now, different now most eat carbs everyday. Fruits were only available IN SEASON while fatty animals all year round, so they wern't eating fruits and starches every day like we are now.

    Dr. Steve Phinney: Man was eating fish, quail, buffalo. We assume that he ate a lot of protein. In actuality, it appears that what the native people did is to time their hunts, and select the animals they hunted for very high levels of body fat. If you killed a buffalo in the fall or early winter, you killed an animal with a lot of body fat. By the way, they generally hunted in small groups. You might have 15-30 people in a hunting party. An adult cow would weigh around 1,000 pounds. A bull would weigh between 2,000 and 2,500 pounds. Now, suppose it’s, say, October? And the daytime temperatures are way above freezing? What do you do with 1,500 pounds of buffalo, and there are only 15 of you?

    Once they killed the buffalo they would pitch their tent and go to work on the carcass. They would skin the carcass and they would work with the skin. They would cut the meat and dry most of it, and they would cut away and save the fat. Within 2 or three days they would have pretty much dealt with the whole carcass. They would take the fat and cook it into liquid fat. They would sew sacks out of part of the hide with the hair on the outside and the rawhide skin on the inside, and they would stuff pounded dried meat into the sacks, and then they would take hot buffalo fat and pour it in to fill in all the air spaces around the meat. Pouring it in hot and then sewing the sack closed with no air killed any bacteria, so when it was cooled, you’d have a solid block of sterilized meat and fat. And that was called pemmican.

    Pemmican once it was produced in that way could be transported and stored anywhere from six months to five years. Depending on how the pemmican was prepared and when the buffalo was harvested.

    So, for a week after the successful hunt, they and their dogs would be eating from the carcass in that first week. Eating the fresh meat, eating the marrow from the bones, which was both a rich source of calcium and minerals as well as fat. Then they’d pack up and leave with maybe 150 pounds of pemmican. And a human could live on one pound of pemmican per day, as a sustenance food

    Basically what they could do, if they killed one buffalo per month, a band of 15 people to 30 people could live on that, carrying the stored food and eating the stored food as they traveled. And if they were very successful and killed 10 buffalo in one month, they would be burdened with 1,000 pounds of food. But that thousand pounds of high energy food could then be used to feed them for a hundred days.


    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2010/...ic-in-2-weeks/

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Nah. Constant consumption of carbs is only bad when they're deep-fried in rancid seed oils.
    Destructive Stressors = Cause destruction to your body, in dietary form they usually come as toxins, Generally your body needs to repair their damage (you seem to know alot about these)

    Chronic Stressors = Stressors that your body would normally handle, except that the stressor hits too often, these usually arise from the body not getting enough rest between stressor events. In dietary form they usually come as eating the same stuff, all day, every day. (you don't seem to know much about these, except for when they might come in the physical/muscular domain)
    Last edited by dilberryhoundog; 06-17-2013 at 01:09 AM.
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  4. #44
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    Some of you might have seen the diagram below before. I'm well acquainted with it and ate like this from 2008 -2012, really strictly in 2012 with my diet consisting of 70% grains, plus vegetables and fruit, everything low fat, almost vegetarian, no red meat.

    I had to start using medication as my beta cells couldn't cope, then insulin, then off insulin ,then on an insulin then off the pump.
    Prior to to 2008 I was never fat always under my BMI but from 2008 I gained slowly-less than 1/2lb a week but consistently. constantly being told the weight gain was OK-less important than blood sugar control so I stuck with it until i became 100lb overweight. All this time I felt like crap but was desperate to be healthy.

    Christmas day i found myself looking at my dinner, healthy, white turkey meat, vegetables, fat free potatoes and my husbands dinner consisting of loads of turkey meat and skin, loads of sausage wrapped in bacon, butter oozing on the few potatoes and veg. It was a WTF moment - he has a nigh perfect body maybe a wee bit thin on the legs and I am this 240+ blob yet I'm the one eating healthy and staying under my calorie limit.

    A normal person can lose weight on any diet but i find it hard to believe anyone can find a high carb diet healthy in the long term.
    Your pancreas is constantly working to balance these, even in the thin, and this is where beta cell burnout comes in. I look at some of the high carb proponents and believe eventually they'll regret this, I hope they wont and will get lucky, but not all of them will.
    When you look at peak stats of type 2 diagnosis you get a spike at 40 and then the incidence stays high - paying for a lifetime of damage. Gorbag for example doesn't talk much about his fasting BG of 6.5 and thinks its OK as it comes down later but he chooses to look after his body his own way.

    The low carb suits both my blood sugar (fasting now 5.2; postprandial 6.4 on metformin only) and my metabolism (65lb weight loss) and is hopefully stunting my cancer (next microscopial exam mid July).
    I know my health is better- for a start I feel it, also my blood panel is excellent, consistently. My peak flow is vastly improved as is nerve conductivity. My blood pressure is normal on no medication now. HDL LDL TRIGS etc in perfect balance according both to griff and what the Dr wants to see. I no longer take a statin
    I have no complaints and am on a perfect diet for Me
    Last edited by CarbDodger; 06-17-2013 at 01:31 AM.
    When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
    27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
    new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbDodger View Post
    Some of you might have seen the diagram below before. I'm well acquainted with it and ate like this from 2008 -2012, really strictly in 2012 with my diet consisting of 70% grains, plus vegetables and fruit, everything low fat, almost vegetarian, no red meat.

    I had to start using medication as my beta cells couldn't cope, then insulin, then off insulin ,then on an insulin then off the pump.
    Prior to to 2008 I was never fat always under my BMI but from 2008 I gained slowly-less than 1/2lb a week but consistently. constantly being told the weight gain was OK-less important than blood sugar control so I stuck with it until i became 100lb overweight. All this time I felt like crap but was desperate to be healthy.

    Christmas day i found myself looking at my dinner, healthy, white turkey meat, vegetables, fat free potatoes and my husbands dinner consisting of loads of turkey meat and skin, loads of sausage wrapped in bacon, butter oozing on the few potatoes and veg. It was a WTF moment - he has a nigh perfect body maybe a wee bit thin on the legs and I am this 240+ blob yet I'm the one eating healthy and staying under my calorie limit.

    A normal person can lose weight on any diet but i find it hard to believe anyone can find a high carb diet healthy in the long term.
    Your pancreas is constantly working to balance these, even in the thin, and this is where beta cell burnout comes in. I look at some of the high carb proponents and believe eventually they'll regret this, I hope they wont and will get lucky, but not all of them will.
    When you look at peak stats of type 2 diagnosis you get a spike at 40 and then the incidence stays high - paying for a lifetime of damage. Gorbag for example doesn't talk much about his fasting BG of 6.5 and thinks its OK as it comes down later but he chooses to look after his body his own way.

    The low carb suits both my blood sugar (fasting now 5.2; postprandial 6.4 on metformin only) and my metabolism (65lb weight loss) and is hopefully stunting my cancer (next microscopial exam mid July).
    I know my health is better- for a start I feel it, also my blood panel is excellent, consistently. My peak flow is vastly improved as is nerve conductivity. My blood pressure is normal on no medication now. HDL LDL TRIGS etc in perfect balance according both to griff and what the Dr wants to see. I no longer take a statin
    I have no complaints and am on a perfect diet for Me
    Thanks for the insight. Keep fighting.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Low carbohydrate diets promote insulin resistance. They don't combat it. They simply avoid the issue. Type 2 Diabetes is an affliction that causes the oxidative machinery that metabolizes glucose to malfunction. Carbohydrate is the victim, not the cause, of Type 2 Diabetes. Because of this, avoiding it will do absolutely nothing to fix the issue. If you consume lots of gluten and it creates an autoimmune condition that makes you allergic to your dog, you're do the equivalent of getting rid of your dog.

    My fasting blood sugar is 75 consuming anywhere from 150-300g of carbohydrate a day. When I was consuming <80g a day, it was 86. Carbohydrate promotes insulin sensitivity, high fat diets and carbohydrate restriction promote insulin resistance. Diabetes, which is at heart a metabolic derangement from too much polyunsaturated fat, nutrient deficiencies and toxic chemicals in the diet, is better combated by removing those poisonous foods from your body. At some point if you want to regain insulin sensitivity, you're going to have to slowly cycle in carbohydrate. Or you can just avoid the issue altogether by eating low-carb and never really fix the problem.
    Interesting thought.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbDodger View Post
    Some of you might have seen the diagram below before. I'm well acquainted with it and ate like this from 2008 -2012, really strictly in 2012 with my diet consisting of 70% grains, plus vegetables and fruit, everything low fat, almost vegetarian, no red meat.

    I had to start using medication as my beta cells couldn't cope, then insulin, then off insulin ,then on an insulin then off the pump.
    Prior to to 2008 I was never fat always under my BMI but from 2008 I gained slowly-less than 1/2lb a week but consistently. constantly being told the weight gain was OK-less important than blood sugar control so I stuck with it until i became 100lb overweight. All this time I felt like crap but was desperate to be healthy.

    Christmas day i found myself looking at my dinner, healthy, white turkey meat, vegetables, fat free potatoes and my husbands dinner consisting of loads of turkey meat and skin, loads of sausage wrapped in bacon, butter oozing on the few potatoes and veg. It was a WTF moment - he has a nigh perfect body maybe a wee bit thin on the legs and I am this 240+ blob yet I'm the one eating healthy and staying under my calorie limit.

    A normal person can lose weight on any diet but i find it hard to believe anyone can find a high carb diet healthy in the long term.
    Your pancreas is constantly working to balance these, even in the thin, and this is where beta cell burnout comes in. I look at some of the high carb proponents and believe eventually they'll regret this, I hope they wont and will get lucky, but not all of them will.
    When you look at peak stats of type 2 diagnosis you get a spike at 40 and then the incidence stays high - paying for a lifetime of damage. Gorbag for example doesn't talk much about his fasting BG of 6.5 and thinks its OK as it comes down later but he chooses to look after his body his own way.

    The low carb suits both my blood sugar (fasting now 5.2; postprandial 6.4 on metformin only) and my metabolism (65lb weight loss) and is hopefully stunting my cancer (next microscopial exam mid July).
    I know my health is better- for a start I feel it, also my blood panel is excellent, consistently. My peak flow is vastly improved as is nerve conductivity. My blood pressure is normal on no medication now. HDL LDL TRIGS etc in perfect balance according both to griff and what the Dr wants to see. I no longer take a statin
    I have no complaints and am on a perfect diet for Me
    Word. Great job! Hey, if your 20 something and working out then increase your carbs. It's been said a thousand ways... "eat carbs to your activity level - Robb Wolf", "Eat an extra hundred grams for each hour of intense training outside of normal PB fitness"- Mark Sisson <----------- both paraphrased since I didn't wanna find it and copy paste so nobody sue me if I got a couple words wrong. Nobody is hating on carbs across the population, but I still find that the evidence strongly indicates that low carb paleo is the most beneficial prescription for people like carbdodger and for reversing insulin resistance and its associated symptoms. Beyond that eat and train till the wheels fall off if you wanna. I still cant advocate cane sugar as a non-toxic substance that is just a victim of PUFA association. Not from what I've seen. Good luck with that theory though. Let me know how it turns out.....but posting your "near perfect" blood work right now isn't gonna impress. We'll have to talk in a couple decades

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Low carbohydrate diets promote insulin resistance. They don't combat it. They simply avoid the issue. Type 2 Diabetes is an affliction that causes the oxidative machinery that metabolizes glucose to malfunction. Carbohydrate is the victim, not the cause, of Type 2 Diabetes. Because of this, avoiding it will do absolutely nothing to fix the issue. If you consume lots of gluten and it creates an autoimmune condition that makes you allergic to your dog, you're do the equivalent of getting rid of your dog.
    diabetes is an affliction that causes the oxidative machinery that metabolizes glucose to malfunction.

    Mitochondrial malfunction?

    Diabetes according to you is an affliction that causes mitochondrial malfunction.

    It doesn't sound anything like diabetes to me, but I await your further explanation, or how I have misunderstood your statement, because as far as I was aware, the machinery (as you say) that oxidises glucose when it is metabolized, is our mitochondria.
    Last edited by dilberryhoundog; 06-17-2013 at 06:36 AM.
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  9. #49
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    Yeah, that definition by choco is whack. Its not a mitochondrial or oxidative machinery malfunction at all. Dunno where he pulled that. Its a hormonal signaling disease state (type II is). Hell you can't even call it a dysfunction cause your body is actually doing what is necessary to survive given the toxic load of energy substrate being put into the blood stream.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sting View Post
    Dr. Cate said: A minority of cell types actually do require glucose, specifically a few types of cells in the liver and cells without mitochondria (e.g., red blood cells). All other cells work perfectly well burning fat and special kinds of fat-breakdown molecules called ketone bodies. According to world-renowned metabolism expert Dr. Mary Vernon, we need 30 gm (2 Tbsp) of glucose per day to keep those cells that prefer glucose running properly. That small amount can readily be supplied by the conversion of protein to glucose in a metabolic process carried out through a cooperation between the liver and kidney, called gluconeogenesis. Your body requires ZERO grams of dietary carb. What little glucose your body requires (30gm) you can generate yourself from an ounce of protein.
    Hogwash. First off, the brain requires a bare minimum of 50g of glucose a day even when in full ketosis. So add those 12.5 Tbsp's to your 2 Tbsps. Second, "need" is not "optimum." Measures such as gluconeogenesis exist because of how crucial glucose is. Your body will devour organ tissue to get it. That doesn't mean you "should" do it. Your body prefers significant quantities of glucose daily. It doesn't like being forced to eat itself to get it. Speaking of "need," you need more glucose daily than you do fat.

    Quote Originally Posted by sting View Post
    And yes Humans did eat starches and fruits but how much and not processed like now, different now most eat carbs everyday. Fruits were only available IN SEASON while fatty animals all year round, so they wern't eating fruits and starches every day like we are now.
    We evolved in Equatorial regions. Fruits were available all year because there aren't temperature swings like there are North. What was NOT available were fatty animals because animals in Equatorial regions are not very fatty. They are lean. Fatty game follows Northern migration, which is very Neolithic.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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