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Thread: MCTs cannot make you fat!? page 2

  1. #11
    dabears's Avatar
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    "I'd sooner trust in my non-controlled results that could have been from any of the numerous changes to my diet/lifestyle than your very well articulated response"

    that's how I read that

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchhool View Post
    Since using coconut oil I have had exactly the same results as above, when I was spooning sugary crap in my mouth I was fat. I'd sooner trust in my real results than some scientific article you have found on the internet.
    And that makes total sense in the context of a controlled study where LCT's were evenly swapped out with MCT's. MCT's elevate the body's metabolic rate more than LCT's, so the "CO" side of the "CICO" equation becomes greater when LCT's are simply displaced. Coconut oil, nature's richest source of MCT's, is notorious for displacing unsaturated fats for saturated fats. This boosts thyroid function as well. This also adds to the "CO" side of the equation over time.

    However, that's not what happens around here often. People start doing things like eating coconut oil before bed and upon waking, or blending coconut oil into their coffee on top of their normal diet. That's just going to add to weight gain or slow body fat loss. If you are going to religiously count calories and displace them, MCT's make sense. But for that same reason, swapping out fat calories for carbohydrate calories would be advantageous as well. I'm guessing that would be a less popular idea around here.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 06-14-2013 at 12:05 PM.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sting View Post
    ChocoTaco369 any links to your info?
    How We Get Fat | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

    The Carb-Sane Asylum: Empty Calories
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    And that makes total sense in the context of a controlled study where LCT's were evenly swapped out with MCT's. MCT's elevate the body's metabolic rate more than LCT's, so the "CO" side of the "CICO" equation becomes greater when LCT's are simply displaced. Coconut oil, nature's richest source of MCT's, is notorious for displacing unsaturated fats for saturated fats. This boosts thyroid function as well. This also adds to the "CO" side of the equation over time.

    However, that's not what happens around here often. People start doing things like eating coconut oil before bed and upon waking, or blending coconut oil into their coffee on top of their normal diet. That's just going to add to weight gain or slow body fat loss. If you are going to religiously count calories and displace them, MCT's make sense. But for that same reason, swapping out fat calories for carbohydrate calories would be advantageous as well. I'm guessing that would be a less popular idea around here.
    That makes sense. I'm pretty regimented with my meals so even though I don't count calories per se, I'm now pretty good at judging portions and know exactly how much to eat to maintain my bodyweight. Being low carb I do sometimes add in Coconut oil either to a meal or as you mentioned my coffee, my body tells me when I need these extra fat calories. On that subject I think more people should try and listen to their own bodies more, if you are hungry take in some calories, if you are thirsty take in some water, don't try and conform to an exact diet just because a certain book or person tells you to.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchhool View Post
    That makes sense. I'm pretty regimented with my meals so even though I don't count calories per se, I'm now pretty good at judging portions and know exactly how much to eat to maintain my bodyweight. Being low carb I do sometimes add in Coconut oil either to a meal or as you mentioned my coffee, my body tells me when I need these extra fat calories. On that subject I think more people should try and listen to their own bodies more, if you are hungry take in some calories, if you are thirsty take in some water, don't try and conform to an exact diet just because a certain book or person tells you to.
    but that doesn't work if you are leptin resistant, insulin resistant, suffering imbalances and not perceiving signs of what your body needs correctly.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by richard View Post
    but that doesn't work if you are leptin resistant, insulin resistant, suffering imbalances and not perceiving signs of what your body needs correctly.
    True. There are always going to be extreme circumstances but I was aiming my comment at Joe average, too many people get fixated on certain dietary practices just based on what they read rather than through their own trial and error.

    This also carries through to working out, I'll sometimes have an out of shape guy tell me I shouldn't be doing a certain thing in the gym because they read it in such and such magazine, to these guys I say get your heads out of the fricken magazines and actually do this $hit, only when you get the results you seek will you know what actually works.
    Last edited by OldSchhool; 06-14-2013 at 01:01 PM.

  7. #17
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    ChocoTaco

    I just read this answered question by Lyle McDonald which he very underestimates protein turning into fat, he clearly seems wrong here?
    Excess Protein and Fat Storage Ė Q&A


    Question: I have done a lot of study in diets and nutrition but to this day I have not been able to get any concrete evidence on what happens with excess protein in the body and Iím hoping you can help.
    To make things simple, lets take a theoretical diet consisting of 5000 calories of pure protein for a 60kg, 175cm female.
    Many people claim that excess protein will get wasted while others say that all excess calories eventually end up being stored as fat.
    I have done my own research on the breakdown of protein into amino acids and I understood it as: some of the amino acids are wasted while others will go through the cycle of conversion and will still be used by the body for energy.
    Answer: Ok, first things first. The example given above is absurdly non-physiological. The satiating power of protein would make such a high protein consumption impossible. That is, 5000 calories of pure protein is 1250 grams of pure protein. Canít be done. Beyond that, while the biochemical pathways for the conversion of protein to fat do exist in humans, the likelihood of it ever happening in any but the most absurdly non-physiological circumstances are effectively nil.
    Let me put this in perspective. Despite a lot of claims to the contrary, the actual conversion of carbohydrate to fat in humans under normal dietary conditions is small approaching insignificant (a topic I discussed at least briefly in Nutrient Intake, Nutrient Storage and Nutrient Oxidation).
    Make no mistake, the conversion of carbs to fat (a process called de-novo lipogenesis or DNL) can happen but the requirements for it to happen significantly are fairly rare in humans under most conditions (to discuss this in detail would require a full article, interested readers can search Medline for work by Hellerstein or Acheson on the topic).
    At least one of those is when daily carbohydrate intake is just massive, fulfilling over 100% of the daily maintenance energy requirements. And only then when muscle glycogen is full. For an average sized male youíre looking at 700-900 grams of carbohydrate daily for multiple days running.
    Which means that the odds of protein being converted to fat in any quantitatively meaningful fashion is simply not going to happen. Certain amino acids are processed to a great degree in the liver (as I discuss in The Protein Book) and this can produce glucose, ketones and a few other things. But triglycerides (the storage form of Ďfatí) isnít one of them.
    I imagine that if protein were going to be converted to fat, it would first have to be converted to glucose and only if the amount produced were then in excess of daily maintenance requirements would there be conversion to fat. But as noted above, this simply isnít going to happen under any even reasonably normal circumstances. No human could eat enough protein on a daily basis for it to occur.
    What will happen, as discussed in Nutrient Intake, Nutrient Storage and Nutrient Oxidation. is that amino acid oxidation (burning for energy) will go up somewhat although, as discussed in that article, itís a slow process and isnít complete.
    So, as noted above, while the pathway exists for protein to be stored as fat, and folks will continue to claim that Ďexcess protein just turns to fatí, itís really just not going to happen under any sort of real-world situation. Certainly we can dream up odd theoretical situations where it might but those wonít apply to 99.9% of real-world situations.

  8. #18
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    Choco i posted something which seems to be waiting approval, but after reading Lyle's comments here Hmm


    Carbs are rarely converted to fat and stored as such
    When you eat more carbs you burn more carbs and less fat; eat less carbs and you burn less carbs and more fat
    Protein is basically never going to be converted to fat and stored as such
    Nearly topped reading there, but will read rest just to see what he has to say.

  9. #19
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    Wiki

    ACADM (acyl-Coenzyme A dehydrogenase, C-4 to C-12 straight chain) is a gene that provides instructions for making an enzyme called acyl-coenzyme A dehydrogenase that is important for breaking down (degrading) a certain group of fats called medium-chain fatty acids. These fatty acids are found in foods such as milk and certain oils, and they are also stored in the body's fat tissue. Medium-chain fatty acids are also produced when larger fatty acids are degraded. The acyl-coenzyme A dehydrogenase for medium-chain fatty acids (ACADM) enzyme is essential for converting these particular fatty acids to energy, especially during periods without food (fasting)

    This from another source

    Some interesting new research just published in Genes and Nutrition revealed that there may be adverse effects of MCTs based on where you store your body fat.

    It's well known that based on your gender, genetics and various hormonal and environmental factors, you may store fat either in the abdominal region and upper body or on the hips and lower body (the apple or pear shapes, respectively). It's also well known that upper body obesity is correlated with greater metabolic risks.

    In this new randomized, double-blind trial, Dutch researchers found that an MCT-based diet increased inflammation and decreased energy metabolism in adipose tissue in a group of subjects with upper body obesity. Why would MCTs have a negative effect on people with upper body obesity? The theory is that since upper body obesity is associated with non alcoholic fatty liver disease, the transport of MCT straight to the hepatic tissues may be an extra fatty acid burden to the liver.

    Two last health caveats. Those with blood sugar regulation issues should know that MCTs have been shown to raise insulin. This, by the way, may also explain why fat loss results have been inconsistent in the research. And finally, MCTs are ketogenic. As such, they should not be given to diabetics except under a physician's direct supervision.

    Hmm
    Last edited by sting; 06-14-2013 at 07:57 PM.

  10. #20
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    ChocoTaco369 Those links you gave basically just mention them as Empty Calories nothing to do with your previous reply?

    Wiki Medium-chain triglyceride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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