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Thread: Will fit/healthy/strong people be the new upper class?? page 6

  1. #51
    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabbcakes View Post
    I have an extremely close family member who absolutely stands on the belief that our system supports innovation, R&D, whatever, because of our US model. He says the US comes up with more new technology, new drugs, new therapies, new surgery methods - the whole shebang - because money is still allowed to be made here from those activities. Which is why the world looks to us for the cutting edge in medicine.

    So - please be nice here: what do you all think?
    They don't use the money incentive to be innovative though. We invent diseases so that we can market a drug to an unassuming public so that they can go "demand" this new miracle pill from their GP.... There has been little to no true innovation in the drug market for a long time. If anything the money to be made there stifles true innovation with patenting and subsequent monopoly for 7 years. Why release a new drug when there is still billions to be eeked out of this one? Or maybe we change it to time released or over the counter and change the name! Oh, and a great one to look at as an example is nexium and prilosec Why no one should take Nexium and it should never have been approved – denialism blog.... scam upon scam. I mean they are both worthless and do nothing to actually deal with the root cause of the problem, but on top of that its a money scheme.

    The problem in the end is that its all still chasing your tail. It still is perpetuating a failed model of symptom based diagnosis and treatment. Money may attract innovation, but look where all said innovation has led us till now.

  2. #52
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    IMO the US needs to just make up its mind and run with it. Either we are a free market society or not. And yeah, that includes health care. Everyone who has insurance is too far removed from the actually cost of services. Every provider that takes insurance is also too far removed unless they run their own practice which is becoming more and more rare as hospital based practice takes over the nation.

    Either that or go 100% socialized medicine. Model the countries that it seems to be working for.

    But do one or the other cause the half arsed kinda socialized but with a bit of private and some people might pay cash model is a huge fail.

  3. #53
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    Our system has winners and losers:
    If you get really sick in the US and have good insurance, you probably can't beat it. My husband had brain surgery. The timing was : noon- go to immediate care for headaches. 3pm MRI 5pm you need surgery. 7pm admitted to an ICU 11am the next day brain surgery with a top surgeon.

    It cost him like $2000 out of pocket for the whole shebang including 2 follow up MRI's.

    The next step in the disease progression was likely seizures. That they could get him in for MRI's and surgery saved him from seizures. That's when the US system is at its best. And face it, US Citizens would bitch if they had to wait for an MRI or surgery.

    We want awesome medical care, but we want it for next to free.

    It costs money to do awesome things to save lives; someone has to pay.

    The more frustrating part is the pricing for basic care.

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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Every provider that takes insurance is also too far removed unless they run their own practice which is becoming more and more rare as hospital based practice takes over the nation.
    What they've found is that physicians who own or have invested in treatment or test facilities or pharmaceutical companies prescribe many more treatments, tests, and drugs. Who would have guessed?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    What they've found is that physicians who own or have invested in treatment or test facilities or pharmaceutical companies prescribe many more treatments, tests, and drugs. Who would have guessed?
    Have they measured the cost of independent procedures vs. hospital owned and run practice procedures.

    I can tell you that a lumbar ap and lateral x-ray from a local medical practice working/owned by X hospital cost $300 vs $50 at a local independent practice. Would the private owned practice be a little more inclined to use their x-ray unit than the hospital based one? Probably, but just in this example they would have to use it 6x more and I doubt the use is that much higher.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Have they measured the cost of independent procedures vs. hospital owned and run practice procedures.

    I can tell you that a lumbar ap and lateral x-ray from a local medical practice working/owned by X hospital cost $300 vs $50 at a local independent practice. Would the private owned practice be a little more inclined to use their x-ray unit than the hospital based one? Probably, but just in this example they would have to use it 6x more and I doubt the use is that much higher.
    What they have found is that doctors who own treatment and testing facilities consistently order more expensive treatments/tests, even though much cheaper ones may be medically indicated.

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  7. #57
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    Yeah, this pretty much says it:

    " It is the newest hospital in the area. It is physician-owned. And it has a reputation (which it disclaims) for aggressively recruiting high-volume physicians to become investors and send patients there. Physicians who do so receive not only their fee for whatever service they provide but also a percentage of the hospital’s profits from the tests, surgery, or other care patients are given. (In 2007, its profits totalled thirty-four million dollars.) Romero and others argued that this gives physicians an unholy temptation to overorder."

    I think that actually proves my point that large hospital based/owned practices inflate cost and use. Funny story is that this isn't illegal. Why is this not considered a kickback or unethical? At least with a local private owned practice thats doing in house labs and such their is no illusion. You know they make money on that stuff.... and the rates are better than hospitals.

    You know it has always perplexed me that in any other business endeavor when you combine skills and resources in one place to increase revenue and overall output you do so while reducing your cost to operate and usually pass that on to the consumer. So the extra profit is win/win. Not so in health care. Anytime you get doctors and resources together with staff and call it a hospital rates go through the roof! The exact opposite phenomenon of any other business occurs. Same tests and procedures performed in an office setting (standard labs, x-ray,ect...) now cost 5-10x as much and there is no logic to it except that hospitals are big money with a big piece of the pie that have the power to negotiate higher rates for service from insurers while private offices are little guys with less of that negotiating power. Its also why the private offices are selling off to the hospitals left and right.

    So as to the OP question I'm back to stay out of the system if you don't wanna get bankrupted by medicine.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 06-14-2013 at 06:21 AM.

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