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Thread: Debunk this paper page

  1. #1
    venam's Avatar
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    Debunk this paper

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    A friend (CW follower) sent me a link to this article.

    http://www.adajournal.org/article/S0...336-5/abstract

    I don't have access to the full text right now. Anyone care to "debunk" or comment on it? I wonder if a primal/low-carb blogger has written about it.

    read below, I got accessed to the full article
    Last edited by venam; 05-18-2010 at 05:55 PM.

  2. #2
    Grumpycakes's Avatar
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    Pretty sure LDL is good to have.

    Also, were the participants doing the original Atkins or were they simply eating nothing but Atkins brand food?

  3. #3
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    Venam, some variables to consider in dietary studies:

    - They usually talk about the quantity of macronutrients, not their quality
    - Unless permanent supervision took place, they are based on the assumption that the people id comply with the study requirements
    - A diet very high in omega 6 (which also qualifies as a high-fat diet) should normally result in bad cardiovascular health markers
    - Both the quality and quantity of carbohydrates can affect cardiovascular health markers

    The PB is a low carb diet, but a low carb is not necessarily the PB
    “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
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  4. #4
    venam's Avatar
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    Primalchild, this is the only thing that I noted as negative from the study:
    Brachial artery testing revealed an inverse correlation between flow-mediated vasodilatation and intake of saturated fat (r=−0.33; P=0.016).
    It's basically the same as this other paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18195164
    After 6 weeks, the percentage of flow-mediated dilation improved (1.9+/-0.8; P<0.05) in the LF diet but was reduced in the LC diet (-1.4+/-0.6; P<0.05) versus baseline.
    I am just trying to see if these papers have been discussed in the community.

    Serial, I don't have access to the full text, that's why I am asking if it has been discussed in the community.

  5. #5
    venam's Avatar
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    I went to campus (I am a software engineer student) in order to get access to the full article. Even in this short amount of time (4 weeks) the Ornish diet managed to increase triglycerides (p = .048) and reduce HDL (p = .002). I looked at the graph for FMD, the group with the lowest consumption of SFA have both the highest and the 2nd lowest FMD. There are other abnormalities in the graph, it's not satisfying (well, at least not to the researchers).
    Last edited by venam; 05-18-2010 at 06:15 PM.

  6. #6
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    Serialsinner hits the nail on the head. High omega 6 is much worse in my opinion than high carb. Without knowing the variables of each diet we can't say anything meaningful about human nutrition. Seriously. Also, this isn't the Atkins diet, it's lower in carbs than CW junk and low-fat food religions but there is no comparison.

    And lower LDL isn't necessarily a good thing. It could just mean smaller particle sizes which would be a bad thing. Also apolipoprotein A is the most atherogenic one, not B. Wtf didn't they include A?

    Your friend doesn't know anything about fats or blood lipids. Tell him that.
    Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

    Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

  7. #7
    venam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stabby View Post
    Serialsinner hits the nail on the head. High omega 6 is much worse in my opinion than high carb. Without knowing the variables of each diet we can't say anything meaningful about human nutrition. Seriously. Also, this isn't the Atkins diet, it's lower in carbs than CW junk and low-fat food religions but there is no comparison.

    And lower LDL isn't necessarily a good thing. It could just mean smaller particle sizes which would be a bad thing. Also apolipoprotein A is the most atherogenic one, not B. Wtf didn't they include A?

    Your friend doesn't know anything about fats or blood lipids. Tell him that.
    If you read my post right above you'll notice what I learned after gaining access to the full text. BTW, they don't specify the diet in the paper.

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