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  1. #191
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    Grazie Loveit Orange - Zappos.com Free Shipping BOTH Ways

    Sbhikes, find these in coral, and you would rock that dress out like a sexy bitch.

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  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    Yeah.... that's sad.

    But here's the deal. Everytime someone with a good body says "I'm fat and need to lose weight" because they are afraid that their tits and ass might attract male attention, another woman hears them and says "shit, I guess I'm fat too".

    The whole reason we should give a shit about being attractive is to attract and keep a mate. Now I know that I am not every guys cup of tea. If you like long and lean, keep looking. But let's just say that enough guys find me attractive to insure I will have a mate.

    Somehow, the media has decided that "attractive"= the tall slim models that are generally selected by men with no interest in mating with women to show off garments. Why the hell would you want to have the body of a 14 year old boy? Go to your average beach and the coathanger girl looks like shit in a bikini because 9/10 times her ass doesn't fill the bottom.

    Yeah, there is that 2% of women that is tall, lean with curves in all the right places. They can date the tall lean men with muscle in all the right places. I know for damn sure all the dieting in the world is not going to make me look like that.

    So what it comes down to.... is we have all these women who are size 0-8 that if they take 2 minutes into thinking about their clothes can look amazing..... calling themselves fat asses because they either 1. don't look like the 2% or 2. don't look like a 14 year old boy. If you are dieting to in essence, make yourselves LESS attractive to men, then at least just say "yeah, I hate it when I have tits and ass because dudes hit on me" (or just eat and wear baggy khaki capris and an oversized shirt). If you are dieting because you hate yourself, just say "I starve myself to punish myself". Whatever you do, don't say you are dieting because you are fat and ugly.

    I think we owe it to the next generation of women to straighten this body image shit out. What we say to girls is "Hey, if you don't look like a 12 year old boy, you are fat and will never find a mate, go hide until you are 2, preferably with long thin legs." I mean seriously, there are a couple of your I'd like to bitch slap because if you are "fat and flabby and ugly", then I'm the town heifer.

    Above all, on this site, this is about a healthy lifestyle and building a healthier self. If you can't lose anymore weight without doing crazy shit, you either need to see a doctor OR you need to recognize that your body is at a healthy weight and you get to make the most of it. Don't just sit here and bitch about losing 10 more pounds so you can be a 0 instead of a 4 and have Giselle's thighs because yours are "fat". If you just are unhappy because of past abuse, then go get some counseling and work towards a life of joy that doesn't involve punishing yourself because some guy was a douchebag 10 years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    I also dunno who it helps for one to beat her feelings into submission somehow and keep them hidden. It's like telling a B student that it's shameful to voice the aspirations for getting an A, because folks with C's might take it amiss.
    I agree with both of you, in different ways, but Leida's is the un-PC stance.

    I definitely think that curves should be more encouraged, and that self-love should be taught. But, I also don't agree with telling people to "man up" (which, as inspiring as your message is Magnolia, it boils down to).

    I'm of the opinion that you need to understand something before you can change it. Hence I encourage honest dialogue where people can express themselves and not feel they have to follow any kind of prescriptive way of thinking - whether this is limited views on attractiveness, or self-love cliches.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  3. #193
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    Choco posted this on the "men not lifting weights" thread, if any of you didn't see it. I think it's very beautiful and moving. Trying to cherish my "most prized possession" is something I can aspire towards.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    This is possibly the most depressing quote in MDA history.

    "Attraction" is subjective. There is what the media tells you is attractive, and then there is real attraction. Real attraction varies wildly from person to person and cannot be defined. You can't define a feeling with words - feelings are intangible. Why do women today almost unanimously hate themselves? Or was it always this way? I don't understand it. A person's body is the greatest gift they'll ever receive. Wouldn't you want to cherish and take care of your greatest possession? Wouldn't you love your greatest possession? The funny thing is, the women put up on a pedestal by the media are often the most sensitive and insecure of them all.[/I][/B]
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  4. #194
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    Trying to cherish my "most prized possession" is something I can aspire towards.
    Yes... and never call yourself a "B" or a "C" in comparison to a photoshopped image.

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  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    Yes... and never call yourself a "B" or a "C" in comparison to a photoshopped image.
    Ironically, I was thinking of the grading system in terms of attitude! You have an "A" attitude. I'm flunking. Maybe I need to study harder, or maybe I'm too dumb (ie. weak willed) to get As. Either way, I should find out why it's such a monumental effort to improve my grades.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 06-13-2013 at 12:18 PM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  6. #196
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    For what's it worth, Susan Alberts suggests using fogging technique to deal with the inner critic, the absolute thoughts that crate conflict. I.e a thought "I am fat" or I am stupid' should not be confronted directly by the "I am NOT!" and evolving into a protracted heated argument. Instead, use a degree of agreement, and work past it: It is true that I am not slender. It is not my best year. I can improve a little every day..." etc. In other words, you defuse the inner conflict from acute, and hopefully, eliminate it.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
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  7. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    Hi Yogabear,
    Sorry I'm late to your thread, but I really think I can help you and the other folks in this thread, to lose some weight. I'll just come straight out with the protocol, then go into a little bit of info to back up the protocol:

    Our Diet, it was obvious. Through a SAD diet our metabolisms are subject to many destructive and chronic stressors, some examples are, PUFA's, free radicals, BPA's etc, etc as destructive stressors. Calorie excess, carb and fat excess, insuline spiking as a result of sugar etc, etc as chronic stressors. hell you can even find chronic stressors in the paleosphere like... daily calorie deficits, daily VLC, daily IF, same daily macros etc etc. Anyway I also ran the idea through a grok filter and yep it checked out, grok definitely would've faced acute dietary stressors/challenges pretty much constantly, think... big game kills, poisonous berries, seasonal fruits and vegetables, food shortages etc etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Thank you for the thought, but by now I am not able to tolerate anything that is deliberately unnatural, macros, feeding windows or calories restrictions. Numbers eventually lead to failure.
    Thanks so much for this DH - I totally buy that it would work and I take CICO with a pinch of salt (too many variables). However, I'm on the same page as Leida in that a dozen years of dieting (nearly half my life) has left me completely burnt out by restriction. Every diet I went on worked... while I was on it.

    But maybe if this works to restore the metabolism, it's different? Are you still following this protocol, or have you shifted back to a regular Paleo way of eating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    For what's it worth, Susan Alberts suggests using fogging technique to deal with the inner critic, the absolute thoughts that crate conflict. I.e a thought "I am fat" or I am stupid' should not be confronted directly by the "I am NOT!" and evolving into a protracted heated argument. Instead, use a degree of agreement, and work past it: It is true that I am not slender. It is not my best year. I can improve a little every day..." etc. In other words, you defuse the inner conflict from acute, and hopefully, eliminate it.
    I actually think the inner critic is a result of hormonal imbalances... Whenever my stress hormones are high, I can't cope with my appearance. When I feel calm, relaxed: *poof* -- no inner critic. In my experience, self-talk doesn't work.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Thanks so much for this DH - I totally buy that it would work and I take CICO with a pinch of salt (too many variables). However, I'm on the same page as Leida in that a dozen years of dieting (nearly half my life) has left me completely burnt out by restriction. Every diet I went on worked... while I was on it.

    But maybe if this works to restore the metabolism, it's different? Are you still following this protocol, or have you shifted back to a regular Paleo way of eating?
    Thanks for the interest yogabear. Yes I am still eating this way, It is modified slightly from the above regimen as I am sustaining not repairing. Basically I don't have to challenge my metabolism as often to keep the wheels greased. Me and my wife don't even think/remember we are on a diet, We have varied lives and our diet follows along. eg. if I have a job on in the day, it's great chance to skip breakfast and lunch. Once a week I play competitive football I find myself having alot to eat (binge) the day after (restoring my glycogen probably). Sometimes we score a great deal at the butchers or a tray of mangoes from dad, (guess what were eating the next day?). If I find that I've gone a coupla weeks without a particular challenge, I'll throw one in.

    ------------

    Ok back to your questions (I'm working back wards through your quote hehe),
    This protocol is all about restoring your metabolism, It is about getting the full use of ALL your metabolic tools. I'll go off on a bit of a tangent here, hopefully it will further your understanding (it's from a future thread I'm yet to write).

    Basically everything on this planet exists on a fragility scale. For all of history an object/thing existed on the fragility scale some where between extremely fragile to very robust, regarding any particular stress. Also existing on this planet for all of history (according to an object/thing) is a stressor. A stressor might be an earthquake, the sun, a food stuff, a load, the wind, another object, a fall, a transfer of energy, a change in stock price, get my drift?
    So if we have a bit of a look at stress in the eye's of an object, we can see stress taking one of three forms... A Stressor could be "destructive" if it is too acute/strong for the object to handle, the object then breaks and is said to be fragile to that stress.
    A stressor could be "chronic" in that an object has to deal with the stressor for too long, it starts out robust then ends up fragile to the stress (think metal fatigue).
    Finally a stressor can be "absorbed" with the object still as it was before the stressor came, the object is said to be robust to this stress.

    The above has been common human knowledge for eons....

    Until last year when a certain Nassim Taleb (an ex options trader on the NYSE) released a book, based on his forming of a new word called antifragile. Something that is antifragile actually gains from absorbable stressors. It turns out that most life on this planet has this ability. Here's an example of how this came about and why it is.... an organism senses a stress incoming, it gathers all its tools it has evolved to absorb this stressor and pits them against the stress, If the organism comes out the otherside still intact, it high fives and congratulates it self cause it is robust to that stress, but the organism isn't out of the woods yet... what if next time the stress comes a little stronger? well the organism reacts to the stress it dealt with now and strengthens the tools it used to beat the stress so that next time it might be successful as well. this is the reason why; our skin goes brown in the sun, our muscles get bigger when we lift a weight, we can run further then we did last time, we are afraid of the things we have always been afraid of (the tool worked), you get my drift.

    So a stressor causes a response in an organism, stressors are information your body uses to reconfigure it self. There is also another factor that needs to be considered, In the absence of stress our bodies atrophy their systems (don't need big strong tools sittin round taking up resources if we don't need to use them). In short, organisms need stressors to live, to configure their physical forms.
    The only trouble with this antifragility system arises when the stressor that comes is "destructive" or "chronic". when this happens we are even more awesome than I described above, our bodies can heal themselves (think broken arm from a tree fall) even if a stressor was destructive, although this is not a permanent solution.

    lets summarize my points so far:
    *Stressors come as either absorbable, destructive or chronic.
    *Lack of stressors is harmful.
    *Stressors can cause us to be fragile and break, they can also cause us to get stronger and grow.
    *Our bodies can heal the damage caused by destructive stressors, though over time we will eventually fail at healing.


    Ok this is where we get back to the concerns of MDA readers.
    Food = Stressor.
    Mark Sisson has done a great job of reducing the stressors our bodies face coming down their gullets on a daily basis (by introducing his primal food list), particularly destructive stressors... PUFA's, free radicals, heavy metals, BPA's, preservatives, anti-nutrients (from grains, legumes) and many more all destroy our bodies on a daily basis, which we have to (awesomely) repair on a daily basis (think high cholesterol, inflammation etc etc), thanks mark

    So as MDA readers we have really only greatly reduced destructive stressors in our diet, we are still subject to lack of stressors and to chronic stressors. This is where we get to your metabolism yogabear and others, If you follow any number of the CW eating protocols trumpeted in this forum, like daily Reduced calorie, daily specific macro percentages, daily low and very low carb, you very much expose your self to both chronic stress and lack of stress, both causeing metabolic problems.

    Where my protocol steps in to help is thus; It gives your metabolism a specific stressor that it has to use specific tools to deal with, then it gives your metabolism a rest from using those tools, so that it may get a chance to make those tools stronger (hence antifragility)(this is the same concept as building muscle), this greatly reduces chronic stressors faced by your body. Also by providing your metabolism every stressor it has the tools to deal with, it stops the atrophy of organ function, systems etc that result from a lack of particular stressors.

    So the basic premise of my protocol is to:
    *eat foods off marks primal food list to reduce the destructive stressors going down ya gullet.
    *eat those foods under varied conditions so that they don't start becoming a chronic stressor.
    *make sure all the dietary conditions our bodies evolved to deal with are present, so that the body shan't suffer from lack of stressors.

    If all these are present in your eating philosophy, after a short while your body will magically configure it self to what is it's ideal configuration. Your metabolism will be fully online, it will not require your (conscious) input to self sustain these ideal conditions (ie you won't have to count calories). If you have specific problems with your "tools" (eg a thyroid problem) it may take you longer, with harder work (more conscious effort) to achieve ideal configuration, but it is possible. Many people have walked despite doctors telling them they will never walk. how did they do it? They unknowingly used our bodies "antifragility" to slowly increase their legs ability to overcome specific stressors, I imagine the same would apply to our organs / metabolism.

    -------

    On leida's question of complexity, restrictiveness and unnaturalness of this protocol, well from what I have seen of other protocols on MDA I think this one sits as one of the most simple and unrestrictive, I'll show you an example (this is where i think Leida is getting stuck as well)

    If some one reads my protocol and see's 20 - 30 lines of info with more than 10 different instructions they believe it to be harder, more restrictive more complex than the following example of a one line protocol:

    You must count the calories and macro's of all the food you eat and then eat 2000 cals a day and macros at 50/20/30 F,C,P.

    There it is, one line, it must be the most simple, unrestrictive protocol getting round right? wrong. The above protocol would take immense conscious effort. My protocol can be done as simply as the following thoughts:
    *Hrrm might skip breaky and lunch tomorrow (1-2 seconds)
    *Wow, steak and wheat free sausages are on special, might have meat day tomorrow (1-2 seconds)
    *Geez lots fruit and vegges left in the fridge, might have a green and yellows day today, so food won't be wasted when I go shopping in a few days (2-3 seconds)

    You've totaled between 10 - 20 seconds of consious brain time and your diet is configured for the week, amazing!!!.

    Also as to your first paragraph I quoted, If you've read and comprehended my shamefully large post you may begin to comprehend why you are feeling burnt out from years of restriction (a hint: CHRONIC & 'ABSENCE of' STRESSORS)

    I hope this has been more of a help in your primal journey.
    Cheers, dilberryhoundog.
    Last edited by dilberryhoundog; 06-14-2013 at 04:49 AM. Reason: grammar
    A little primal gem - My Success Story
    Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

  9. #199
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    Yeah, except the moment my mind tells me that I need to skip breakfast or lunch, I go into hours of arguing with myself, and eat it anyway because I can't stand missing it any more.

    It's even worse with having a day with no fruit. The problem is that I grew absolutely incapable of skipping meals and not eating fruit. It basically leads down to hysteria in about 2-3 hours. I can only take being hungry in stride if I get to eat fruit, and not skip meals. I dunno why.

    I have already eliminated all sweeteners, all food additives, dairy, coffee, nightshades, eggs and now working on dropping nuts. Don't want any restrictions on top of that. I want easy rather than challenging. I am frigging tired of challenges.

    Gonna try to run sprints today at lunch if it doesn't rain. Gods, of all forms of exercise running sprints is the second one on my "I hate it' list. The first being, he spinning/biking. I almost hope it rains. I almost wish one could lose weight by climbing into bed and sleeping.

    I guess I am firmly stuck in the "I wish I could lose 15-20 lbs' and complete unwillingness of doing things that can actually make me lose the weight. Just not enough motivation, I suppose.

    For now, I just need to concentrate on ditching the coconut milk/almond butter with my tea, and just having more fruit in the evening. I need to break the mental block that carbs/fruit are bad & meat and fats are somehow better.
    Last edited by Leida; 06-14-2013 at 07:10 AM.
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  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    I have already eliminated all sweeteners, all food additives, dairy, coffee, nightshades, eggs and now working on dropping nuts. Don't want any restrictions on top of that. I want easy rather than challenging. I am frigging tired of challenges.
    ^^^ this don't make any sense to me, This is an extremely restrictive diet, it seems far from easy and very challenging to conduct. I mean whats left for you to eat? meat, greens and fruit. Its no wonder you eat fruit all day, I would too if the only other choices where bland old meat and bland old vegges. If your allergic or physically reactive to all this stuff, then it might make a little sense, but if your actually restricting this stuff because you think its gunna make you lose weight, then I can see why you aren't losing weight.

    I eat nightshades, nuts, dairy, eggs, have a coffee once in a while, I probably get some sweeteners and additives too, as well as a whole range of other food stuffs, my diet is way way way way way way way way less restrictive than yours. I CHALLENGE MY METABOLISM WITH DIFFERENT FOOD, THE CHALLENGE ISN'T WITH MY MIND. My mind is free to think up great diet theory's, or what ever the hell it wants, it feels in no way challenged in regards to food.

    My metabolism is a MONSTER!!!! If you seen my metabolism walking down the street your metabolism would look twice and probably wolf wistle, my metabolism is SEXY, it has rippling muscles every where.

    If I where your dietician from what I have gleamed from a few of your posts this is what I would recommend:

    *First expand the list of foods you can eat, try to eat every thing on marks primal food lists (not at once hehe) including the "in moderation" foods, I wouldn't get you to do any protocol, just eat normally if you gained some weight it wouldn't matter. keep eating your fruit everyday.

    *once comfortable with that I would then get you to vary your fruit amounts per day, slowly (once or twice a week) and a little at the start, getting more varied as you got better at doing it, eventually getting it to the point where you could go with out fruit for a day (this could take weeks, months, years it wouldn't matter)

    *once you could do the no fruit for a day, i would get you to do that once a week, slowly shifting up to a few times a week. At this stage you would be pretty much clear of your fruit crutch, your metabolism would be a fruit master!!!!

    *I would then move onto the challenge of skipping a meal, first id get you to skip a meal on a day that you would eat fruit at the next meal, once mastered then I'd challenge you to skip a meal on a day you didn't eat fruit, once that happened your metabolism would be a meal skipping, fruit eating, master!!!!

    *You probably guessed it, slowly we would introduce other metabolic challenges untill your metabolism was a PRIMAL FOOD MASTER!!!!, your metabolism would be sexy, it would have rippling muscles every where.

    *At this stage your phisical body would probably follow suit and want rippling muscles as well, it would probably say "a sprint hell yeah lets do it" it would be sniffing around for different challenges because it would want to be a SEXY BEAST!!!! just like your metabolism. (see the point I'm trying to make here is that: if only we trained our metabolisms, like we trained our bodies, then shitloads of primal peoples would have better metabolisms)

    *eventually your body would settle at is ideal "stressor busting" configuraton, the beaut thing would be that your mind wouldn't have really had do do that much hard work, only to push your fruit eating and then meal skipping limits once or twice a week in the early stages of your journey.
    Last edited by dilberryhoundog; 06-14-2013 at 09:27 AM.
    A little primal gem - My Success Story
    Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

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