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  1. #81
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kochin View Post
    The first bit is the purpose of the body. The last bit is a human goal, created by the mind.
    But no, the purpose of existence isn't just reproduction. It just happens to be the purpose of the bodies we inhabit. The purpose of the mind is far more intricate, individual and undecipherable than that.

    The purpose of existence as a whole? I have no idea. Not even a starting-point. I like to think existence is just there for the fun of it.
    It depends upon the kind of idea. If the idea helps other people survive and live better lives, then I see it as the biggest extension of reproducing yourself. With each step on that list I wrote, the people you affect can be thought of as your circle, and each step makes your circle bigger and bigger.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    It depends upon the kind of idea. If the idea helps other people survive and live better lives, then I see it as the biggest extension of reproducing yourself. With each step on that list I wrote, the people you affect can be thought of as your circle, and each step makes your circle bigger and bigger.
    Well, that IS my final purpose in this world, to be honest: genetic world domination...
    And everyone shall be linked back to me and my fiance and we'll be known as the Adam and Eve of our era.

    Anyone with me for giving-up their unborn children in marriage to my unborn children and creating a master-race?
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    --
    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

  3. #83
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    Good one, that philosophy is flawed to death, but otherwise it's quite original (though I've already thought of that).

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguelinileugim View Post
    Good one, that philosophy is flawed to death, but otherwise it's quite original (though I've already thought of that).
    Surely you want your kids to reproduce with one of the 'Primally chosen ones'? Master-race! World supremacy! I'll supply the weddings with a whole leg of Serrano ham per person!
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    --
    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguelinileugim View Post
    Mostly? Ultimately none of them makes sense at all, no even the golden rule or the categorical imperative, according to logic anyway.

    What surprises me is the context of his answer.
    There are some morals that make sense evolutionarily. Some morals can lead to greater success in reproduction, survival, and growth as a species.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    There are some morals that make sense evolutionarily. Some morals can lead to greater success in reproduction, survival, and growth as a species.
    Surprisingly, morality is one of the few things that shouldn't be seen with an evolutive perspective, it's not like we have a "moral gene" anywhere, though maybe a pseudo-morality according to evolution for emotional reasons would be a good idea.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguelinileugim View Post
    Surprisingly, morality is one of the few things that shouldn't be seen with an evolutive perspective, it's not like we have a "moral gene" anywhere, though maybe a pseudo-morality according to evolution for emotional reasons would be a good idea.
    Take a step back and think about what a moral is. It's a belief. Do you believe you should live or die? If you believe the former, you carry an evolutionarily-advantageous meme/moral/belief.

    That was too obvious. There are others. Do you believe in dominating other people or co-existing with them? Dominating nature or co-existing? The dominating options were so evolutionarily advantageous that the culture of the people who created them grew from just a few original tribes in the Middle East to now cover almost the entire globe.

    That's the past though. What about the future? I think the most evolutionarily advantageous memes are related to science and technology. If humans are able to become inter-galactic beings, it will be because of those memes.

    Take technology, science, domination of nature and other people.... What do you get? Essentially, power and knowledge. Knowledge IS power, as the saying goes, so it is really all about power to understand and thus control one's surroundings. Do this, and you will have the best chance of surviving.

    Morals survive and morals die based upon the believers of these morals. The evolutionarily advantageous morals are the ones that get replicated onto other people by the original believer before he dies.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 06-09-2013 at 02:07 AM.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Take a step back and think about what a moral is. It's a belief. Do you believe you should live or die? If you believe the former, you carry an evolutionarily-advantageous meme/moral/belief.

    That was too obvious. There are others. Do you believe in dominating other people or co-existing with them? Dominating nature or co-existing? The dominating options were so evolutionarily advantageous that the culture of the people who created them grew from just a few original tribes in the Middle East to now cover almost the entire globe.

    That's the past though. What about the future? I think the most evolutionarily advantageous memes are related to science and technology. If humans are able to become inter-galactic beings, it will be because of those memes.

    Take technology, science, domination of nature and other people.... What do you get? Essentially, power and knowledge. Knowledge IS power, as the saying goes, so it is really all about power to understand and thus control one's surroundings. Do this, and you will have the best chance of surviving.

    Morals survive and morals die based upon the believers of these morals. The evolutionarily advantageous morals are the ones that get replicated onto other people by the original believer before he dies.
    Yes, I agree with everything. However, I'm speaking about your OWN moral/belief system, which doesn't have to do with evolution as it's yours for the sake of your own happiness.

    Let's put it this way, imagine that you had the choice between having a thousand kids through a life of suffering, or not having any through a life of happiness and longevity. According to evolution, you should choose the first option, according to you and your happiness, you should choose the second one.

    So, your moral/belief system should be made for the sake of your happiness, not for the sake of evolution. Who cares about what makes more evolutive sense!

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguelinileugim View Post
    Yes, I agree with everything. However, I'm speaking about your OWN moral/belief system, which doesn't have to do with evolution as it's yours for the sake of your own happiness.

    Let's put it this way, imagine that you had the choice between having a thousand kids through a life of suffering, or not having any through a life of happiness and longevity. According to evolution, you should choose the first option, according to you and your happiness, you should choose the second one.

    So, your moral/belief system should be made for the sake of your happiness, not for the sake of evolution. Who cares about what makes more evolutive sense!
    So now we're talking about happiness. There's still an evolutionary basis for what will make us happy. For instance, you eating good food and getting laid will make you happy. Evolutionarily, these two pleasures are there to make sure you eat healthily and reproduce.

    There is a flip side of course. Some people get happy by killing other people. That's certainly evolutionarily-poor for people around this person. The human brain is smart enough that we are one of, if not the only, species that is capable of doing things that are bad for our survival.

    I know you're trying to say that morals are all about this flowery poems that have no basis in reality or evolution. I would say look at the actual content, and you will find a lot of it applicable to evolution.

    PS- morals are about what is important, not what is joyful. To discuss what is important, any hard-thinker will certainly search for evolutionarily-valid points.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 06-09-2013 at 03:47 PM.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    So now we're talking about happiness. There's still an evolutionary basis for what will make us happy. For instance, you eating good food and getting laid will make you happy. Evolutionarily, these two pleasures are there to make sure you eat healthily and reproduce.

    There is a flip side of course. Some people get happy by killing other people. That's certainly evolutionarily-poor for people around this person. The human brain is smart enough that we are one of, if not the only, species that is capable of doing things that are bad for our survival.

    I know you're trying to say that morals are all about this flowery poems that have no basis in reality or evolution. I would say look at the actual content, and you will find a lot of it applicable to evolution.

    PS- morals are about what is important, not what is joyful. To discuss what is important, any hard-thinker will certainly search for evolutionarily-valid points.
    Yes, I agree that morality can be understood through the lenses of evolution.

    But, you said that morals is about what is important, not what is joyful, but is there a difference between the latter and the former? What do you think is important in life other than happiness?

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