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  1. #71
    Kochin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    Kochin, why do you believe the point to life is to reproduce? I think maybe we are at a fundamental disagreement there.

    what makes you think there is purpose at all? People with many descendents are still dead
    The purpose of the body is to reproduce. Death doesn't matter to nature or evolution, death is just the purge of those who have been used. The mind/soul will continue, but it continues regardless of what you do or think. It's better to live treating your body as an animal and your mind with complete freedom.
    Empathy, for example, is a biological process triggered by oxytocin. Hate and love are biologically indistinguishable. The ways we attempt to explain the mind can only manage to explain the physical side to it, the bodily responses it triggers and/or is fed by. To discuss the mind we would need to separate it from the body and to separate the mind from the body would be impossible, as, whilst living, they are too deeply connected. Thus, discussing the mind is like discussing an afterlife: we don't know and, when we do, we won't be discussing it, as everyone we could tell will know as much as us.

    Don't hurt your body, don't cage your mind. That's pretty much the basics on how to serve yourself as a person.
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

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    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

  2. #72
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    I don't understand why, if you are trying to keep your mind from any kind of limiting conceptual framework, you conclude so concretely that the body is for reproduction...

    Obviously that is not correct. What about when I was 8? Did my body have no reason for being?
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kochin View Post
    The purpose of the body is to reproduce. Death doesn't matter to nature or evolution, death is just the purge of those who have been used. The mind/soul will continue, but it continues regardless of what you do or think. It's better to live treating your body as an animal and your mind with complete freedom.
    Empathy, for example, is a biological process triggered by oxytocin. Hate and love are biologically indistinguishable. The ways we attempt to explain the mind can only manage to explain the physical side to it, the bodily responses it triggers and/or is fed by. To discuss the mind we would need to separate it from the body and to separate the mind from the body would be impossible, as, whilst living, they are too deeply connected. Thus, discussing the mind is like discussing an afterlife: we don't know and, when we do, we won't be discussing it, as everyone we could tell will know as much as us.

    Don't hurt your body, don't cage your mind. That's pretty much the basics on how to serve yourself as a person.
    To believe that human life is nothing more than a bunch if molecules arranged in a certain way trying to duplicate themselves.... Is to take an extremely shallow view of the situation, to say the least.

    But if your statement is not meant to exclude other meanings for living, then I would agree with what you're saying. Survival is certainly the strongest instinct a person can have. Survival is first for yourself, then for your genes (making kids), then to make sure those living genes survive (protecting the kids and grand kids), then to make sure your ideas or memes survive.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 06-05-2013 at 12:16 PM.

  4. #74
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    She is a sociopath though, you should take that into consideration.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    I don't understand why, if you are trying to keep your mind from any kind of limiting conceptual framework, you conclude so concretely that the body is for reproduction...

    Obviously that is not correct. What about when I was 8? Did my body have no reason for being?
    Because you have to treat the body as an animal. That's what it is. Everything it does is geared towards reproducing, trillions of years have made it so. Anything which didn't have reproduction as its primary purpose died out long ago. At 8, you were potential. Just because you couldn't reproduce at a specific point doesn't mean that isn't your body's purpose, the same way that a harddrive can exist without a computer, yet its purpose is to be part of one. As nature is pretty much non-directional besides reproduction, it doesn't head only towards more effective ways of reproducing, but towards any way that allows sufficient reproduction. But reproduction is always the main driver.

    I eat and move the way I do because it's better to treat the body as a pet: feed it well, let it move as nature intended, don't hurt or abuse it and allow it to reproduce.
    The mind is another story entirely, of course, but there's nothing I can do for it besides acquire information and hope it grows and survives the body.
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    --
    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    To believe that human life is nothing more than a bunch if molecules arranged in a certain way trying to duplicate themselves.... Is to take an extremely shallow view of the situation, to say the least.

    But if your statement is not meant to exclude other meanings for living, then I would agree with what you're saying. Survival is certainly the strongest instinct a person can have. Survival is first for yourself, then for your genes (making kids), then to make sure those living genes survive (protecting the kids and grand kids), then to make sure your ideas or memes survive.
    The first bit is the purpose of the body. The last bit is a human goal, created by the mind.
    But no, the purpose of existence isn't just reproduction. It just happens to be the purpose of the bodies we inhabit. The purpose of the mind is far more intricate, individual and undecipherable than that.

    The purpose of existence as a whole? I have no idea. Not even a starting-point. I like to think existence is just there for the fun of it.
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    --
    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    Miguel, can you define the following terms for me?

    I am curious how you see the following:

    Class
    Race
    Gender
    Family
    Culture
    Economy
    Freedom
    Violence
    Class-->Artificial classification of individuals according to socioeconomic issues
    Race-->Artificial classification of individuals according to minor genetical differences
    Gender-->Natural differentiation of individuals according to reproductive issues
    Family-->Half natural half artificial social organization
    Culture-->Shared knowledge and customs of a human collective
    Economy-->Sum of all economical exchanges
    Freedom-->Illusion where individuals don't see any barriers to their decisions
    Violence-->Natural human response to some situations

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    I'm going to guess that he means when you examine morals and ethics long enough, you come to find out that there are almost no organic morals or ethics at all. They're mostly all human-made.
    Mostly? Ultimately none of them makes sense at all, no even the golden rule or the categorical imperative, according to logic anyway.

    What surprises me is the context of his answer.

  9. #79
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    I don't know about you, but I pretty much eat, sleep, fu**, worship and philosophize the way I please. And where society and I disagree, I go my own way. I figure if it works, other people might emulate it, and if it fails, I've learned something and the people watching me have a fantastic opportunity to feel superior. Win-win.

    Eating organic, raising chickens, composting, recycling, smartphones, the internet, interracial marriage, flying machines, church services that weren't in Latin--these were all crazy ideas rejected by a society which then watched others attempt the impossible, succeed, thrive, and prosper, and now it's mainstream. That's just how life is. Not all of society is going to be risk-taking visionaries. Most of us are lackadaisical couch (sweet) potatoes. Don't like how things are? Go do it different. We'll follow you if your ideas are better than our couches.

  10. #80
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    Sorry, who are you replying fitmom?

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