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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguelinileugim View Post
    Yes, I agree that morality can be understood through the lenses of evolution.

    But, you said that morals is about what is important, not what is joyful, but is there a difference between the latter and the former? What do you think is important in life other than happiness?
    Living, for one. You can be alive and not happy, but you cannot be dead and happy.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Living, for one. You can be alive and not happy, but you cannot be dead and happy.
    But apart from being alive, what's the thing you want most from life?

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    We'd have to physically exterminate the financier class, the media sorcerers, and anyone still clinging to the idea of owning land.
    Oy vey, it's like another shoah!
    Ye shall know them by their fruits.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguelinileugim View Post
    But apart from being alive, what's the thing you want most from life?
    You're trying to get me to say that I want to be happy. I just want to satisfy my needs, satisfy needs of others, and try to leave my mark well into the future. Happiness is a feeling, so I don't think it makes much sense for a feeling to be a moral.

    I'm going to give something new a try here.... This is from a program I use called "Freeplane". Let me know if you're able to comprehend or not. I much prefer mindmapping to paragraph writing.

    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 06-10-2013 at 11:57 PM.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    You're trying to get me to say that I want to be happy. I just want to satisfy my needs, satisfy needs of others, and try to leave my mark well into the future. Happiness is a feeling, so I don't think it makes much sense for a feeling to be a moral.

    I'm going to give something new a try here.... This is from a program I use called "Freeplane". Let me know if you're able to comprehend or not. I much prefer mindmapping to paragraph writing.

    And why? Why should you do all that? Please tell me, literally NOBODY has ever given me a satisfying answer to the "why?" of morality.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguelinileugim View Post
    And why? Why should you do all that? Please tell me, literally NOBODY has ever given me a satisfying answer to the "why?" of morality.
    It all goes back to the desire to survive. You survive in your own skin, then you pass on your genes, then you ensure your genes survive to pass it further on, then you pass on your memes. Why survive? I'll do my best to explain....

    There are four main modes of thinking: empirical, rational/logical, faith/authority, and intuition. From first to last, you go from more complex to less complex. The more complex ones are generally the most useful in analyzing the world. Smart people get used to this, so they put everything under the empirical and logical microscope. I know I've been guilty of it.

    However, some parts of life are simply primal. They always were faith and intuition driven, and it's best to leave them that way. We are approaching the very basics of life in this conversation. Above my logic driven answers of how one can survive (thru self, genes, and memes) is an intuitive driven answer that, yes, I must survive. It just feels right, and I'm going to leave it that way.

    If you're looking for logic as to why the human race, or just yourself, should survive, you will be greatly disappointed. Morals of that sort are total human constructs with nothing backing them but intuition also!
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 06-11-2013 at 07:38 AM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    It all goes back to the desire to survive. You survive in your own skin, then you pass on your genes, then you ensure your genes survive to pass it further on, then you pass on your memes. Why survive? I'll do my best to explain....

    There are four main modes of thinking: empirical, rational/logical, faith/authority, and intuition. From first to last, you go from more complex to less complex. The more complex ones are generally the most useful in analyzing the world. Smart people get used to this, so they put everything under the empirical and logical microscope. I know I've been guilty of it.

    However, some parts of life are simply primal. They always were faith and intuition driven, and it's best to leave them that way. We are approaching the very basics of life in this conversation. Above my logic driven answers of how one can survive (thru self, genes, and memes) is an intuitive driven answer that, yes, I must survive. It just feels right, and I'm going to leave it that way.

    If you're looking for logic as to why the human race, or just yourself, should survive, you will be greatly disappointed. Morals of that sort are total human constructs with nothing backing them but intuition also!
    Wait a sec... Do you mean that there's no "why?" of morality, just like intuition and that it will always be? I mean, I think that I have discovered the "why" of morality, and even if I hadn't I think that there must be one.

    P.S: Sorry for the bad my-reply-to-yours ratio, but I don't need to use lots of words for my arguments on this matter, so far

  8. #98
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    My "why" is often fear of repercussions. Sometimes not, but it usually is.

    M.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by MEversbergII View Post
    My "why" is often fear of repercussions. Sometimes not, but it usually is.

    M.
    OK, now please Mr.Hobbesian could you explain us why do you think that we shouldn't (or should) act morally and what moral we should follow then?

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguelinileugim View Post
    OK, now please Mr.Hobbesian could you explain us why do you think that we shouldn't (or should) act morally and what moral we should follow then?
    I'm afraid I'm not following you.

    M.

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