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Thread: Do excess carbs turn to fat, even within calorie limits? page 14

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Again, you're right that it is primarily a metabolic problem, but your sentence that I bolded is unequivocably false. Sugar is 'sticky' and gums up the receptors on proteins. Too much sugar stops our proteins working properly.
    I didn't say anything false. You're not fully grasping my point. Yes, sugar becomes toxic if it sits in the blood too long, but that isn't because sugar is toxic. That is a problem with your metabolism, not a problem with sugar. Imagine if your stomach lacked the ability to push food through it. If you ate and the food never left, it would become toxic. That doesn't make food toxic, it means you have a problem with your stomach. Calling sugar "toxic" when it sits in your blood too long due to a deficient metabolism is like blaming your pencil for spelling words wrong. It's not the pencil's fault you have terrible grammar and it isn't sugar's fault that your body can't properly metabolize it. Again, this is a FAT problem (PUFA), not a carbohydrate problem that causes an inability to remove sugar from the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Any diet that involves whole, nutrient-dense, low-toxin foods in sufficient amounts is probably going to be healthy. However, there is a difference between "healthy" and "ideal." You can live a long, healthy life eating a high fat, low carbohydrate diet provided the foods are nutritious, low toxin and you're consuming the right amount of calories. But a diet balanced in fat and carbohydrate in the same caloric and nutritional totals will be far healthier.

    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Choco, you swear black and blue that it's total calories that matter.

    But what about the studies comparing weight loss between calorifically restricted high-carbers and ab-libitum low-carbers? Somehow people eating more carbs might eat more and be hungrier?
    What carbs are we comparing here? A diet of steamed chicken breast, whole grain pasta and refined sugar vs a diet of steak, fish, eggs and vegetables? Huh?

    You forget donuts, cookies and potato chips are all higher in fat than carbs. It is the quality of food that matters regarding satiety, not the macronutrient breakdown. Epidemiology isn't real science.

    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    I know that because of the satiety factor the people who are low carbing are able to feel fuller because they are more satisfied and not as hungry, by why would you want to feel hungry eating more carbs?
    Quality of carbs matter as much as quality of fats.

    Butter does not equal soybean oil.

    Potatoes and fruit do not equal wheat flour and corn syrup.

    People around here seem to understand that butter does not equal soybean oil. Why can't they grasp the second point? They are hungrier because they are eating more processed food that just so happens to be higher in carbs than real food.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 06-06-2013 at 08:49 AM.
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  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    So you had a low carb meal because you are trying to lose weight? What??

    Look, we are all low carb here. We don't eat poptarts and Oreo-Os for breakfast (with toast and juice no less), sandwiches on ciabatta bread the size of our heads with fries and a soda for lunch, and dinner plates heaped with pasta and sauce with 2nd helpings and ice cream for dessert.

    Most of us seem to intuitively know that a level of carbohydrate more in line with what might be available in nature is more healthy and more conducive to a strong, lean body.
    Yep!

    You lose weight by maintaining a calorie deficit. You make a calorie deficit maintainable by eating the most satiating, nutritious foods you can. You do this by skewing protein higher at the expense of fat and carbs. You cannot burn stored fat until the dietary fat and carbohydrate you eat are in a deficit, so you have to drop them. As a consequence, you must maintain protein levels (or upregulate them) to ensure most of your "weight" lost on your deficit is fat. We don't want to lose muscle, here!

    I find myself eating chicken breast, 93+% ground beef, london broil, cottage cheese and trimmed pork loin when cutting. I considerably increase vegetables and considerably decrease fruit and starch intake as well, except after my lifts where I "carb up" heavily. I don't do much fat, period, minus coconut products to maintain thyroid. I also take dessicated thyroid. It seems to be working well. In the past 10 weeks I've dropped 8 lbs effortlessly without counting a calorie. I'm down to 144 lbs.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Yep!

    You lose weight by maintaining a calorie deficit. You make a calorie deficit maintainable by eating the most satiating, nutritious foods you can. You do this by skewing protein higher at the expense of fat and carbs. You cannot burn stored fat until the dietary fat and carbohydrate you eat are in a deficit, so you have to drop them. As a consequence, you must maintain protein levels (or upregulate them) to ensure most of your "weight" lost on your deficit is fat. We don't want to lose muscle, here!

    I find myself eating chicken breast, 93+% ground beef, london broil, cottage cheese and trimmed pork loin when cutting. I considerably increase vegetables and considerably decrease fruit and starch intake as well, except after my lifts where I "carb up" heavily. I don't do much fat, period, minus coconut products to maintain thyroid. I also take dessicated thyroid. It seems to be working well. In the past 10 weeks I've dropped 8 lbs effortlessly without counting a calorie. I'm down to 144 lbs.
    Have you been diagnosed with a thyroid or metabolic disorder? IF not this is a dangerous avenue of supplementation and your likely to cause some self harm.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Have you been diagnosed with a thyroid or metabolic disorder? IF not this is a dangerous avenue of supplementation and your likely to cause some self harm.
    How could I be diagnosed with a thyroid disorder when the in-practice test for a thyroid disorder - a TSH bloodtest - does not test the thyroid and rather tests the pituitary gland? Doctors do not know how to test for a thyroid disorder. Furthermore, the typical thyroid treatment today - thyroxine - is synthetic T4. That's crap. Active thyroid T3 is what is necessary!

    The best method of testing thyroid is simple:

    1.) Get a thermometer.
    2.) Take your temperature at waking.

    I feel better and have a better temperature taking thyroid powder, which is a small amount of dessicated cow thyroid and adrenal tissue with kidney and spleen. Everything is in a natural balance. I feel better, I sleep better and I'm warmer. Sounds good to me!
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    How could I be diagnosed with a thyroid disorder when the in-practice test for a thyroid disorder - a TSH bloodtest - does not test the thyroid and rather tests the pituitary gland? Doctors do not know how to test for a thyroid disorder. Furthermore, the typical thyroid treatment today - thyroxine - is synthetic T4. That's crap. Active thyroid T3 is what is necessary!

    The best method of testing thyroid is simple:

    1.) Get a thermometer.
    2.) Take your temperature at waking.

    I feel better and have a better temperature taking thyroid powder, which is a small amount of dessicated cow thyroid and adrenal tissue with kidney and spleen. Everything is in a natural balance. I feel better, I sleep better and I'm warmer. Sounds good to me!

    lol I said "or metabolic disorder" which I would associate any deficiencies in conversion of thyroid hormone with. You can get these tests yourself through outfits like DirectLabs. Either way your "best methods" suck without attention to symptoms, history,and an initial complete panel. Shits just dangerous. Quite like anabolic steroids if you start supplementing with this stuff why would your body bother going through the process of making it? So would you like to train your body to be dependent on exogenous thyroid hormones? Does not sound like a good health strategy to me. Put down the Kool Aid man. Rather not single you out on this cause I know you will defend your current regimen to the end, but some of the stuff your spouting is flat out dangerous. May as well suggest people start snorting coke and smoking to ramp up their metabolism....

    Then again I have no idea what you are taking.... if its armour or your talking about some whole foods supplement with miniscule amounts. Just seems silly for a 20 something that eats healthy, lifts weights, and talks shit on protein powder to be consuming something like this.... be it the prescription grade T3 or the supplemental stuff like this http://www.luckyvitamin.com/p-118102...arian-capsules.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 06-06-2013 at 09:50 AM.

  6. #136
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    This is what I take.

    Vitacost Thyroid Complex

    I don't see how it would be dangerous. 70mg of "glandular complex" made up of "liver, pancreatin 4X, spleen, kidney, lung and adrenal tissue" isn't too intimidating. It's essentially a multivitamin. I take it because for months upon months, I'd get cold after eating. Eating more fruit and starch in lieu of fat seemed to have helped. This seems to have fully corrected the issue. Most Americans are hypothyroid to a degree. Even with a solid diet and a very good exercise regimen, I cannot compensate that I am damned to an office chair all day and get little fresh air and sunshine. I also don't get as much sleep as I should. All these things contribute, and some are out of my control.

    EDIT - Actually I think this site may be missing an ingredient. I'm pretty sure my bottle says thyroxine-free thyroid powder on it. I'm going to have to check when I get home. Will update later.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 06-06-2013 at 10:04 AM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  7. #137
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    Now something like this would be a considerable step up:

    Natural Sources Raw Thyroid -- 90 Capsules - Vitacost

    This contains 390mg of "Thyroid Tissue, Adrenal Tissue, Pituitary Tissue, Thymus Tissue, Spleen Tissue, White Kidney Ginseng."

    Probably more similar to Armour Thyroid. Which I don't see as dangerous. Not compared to that Synthroid crap people take.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Yep!

    You lose weight by maintaining a calorie deficit. You make a calorie deficit maintainable by eating the most satiating, nutritious foods you can. You do this by skewing protein higher at the expense of fat and carbs. You cannot burn stored fat until the dietary fat and carbohydrate you eat are in a deficit, so you have to drop them. As a consequence, you must maintain protein levels (or upregulate them) to ensure most of your "weight" lost on your deficit is fat. We don't want to lose muscle, here!

    I find myself eating chicken breast, 93+% ground beef, london broil, cottage cheese and trimmed pork loin when cutting. I considerably increase vegetables and considerably decrease fruit and starch intake as well, except after my lifts where I "carb up" heavily. I don't do much fat, period, minus coconut products to maintain thyroid. I also take dessicated thyroid. It seems to be working well. In the past 10 weeks I've dropped 8 lbs effortlessly without counting a calorie. I'm down to 144 lbs.
    Hi Choco. Earlier you mentioned that are simultaneously high in carbs and fat are a recipe for fat gain... Does that mean that a meal containing 20g carbs, 20g fat, and 20g protein is a recipe for fat gain? Or do the fat/carb numbers both need to be much higher? I ask because most of my meals are around that ratio (but I'm always in a caloric deficit anyway, so I'm not sure if it even matters)

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForgotMyOldUsername View Post
    Hi Choco. Earlier you mentioned that are simultaneously high in carbs and fat are a recipe for fat gain... Does that mean that a meal containing 20g carbs, 20g fat, and 20g protein is a recipe for fat gain? Or do the fat/carb numbers both need to be much higher? I ask because most of my meals are around that ratio (but I'm always in a caloric deficit anyway, so I'm not sure if it even matters)
    It only matters if it's in a caloric surplus. 20g of carbs, 20g of fat and 20g of protein is 340 calories. That sure isn't much. If you eat that after you've already maxed out your calories for the day it would be fattening. If that's all your eating all day you'll waste away to nothing.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    wow im getting confused...
    so i always thought high-glycemic carbs, or a lot of carbs at once, raised insulin which then stored the carbs as fat easily because the body digests them faster. But some seem to say dietary fat, not carbs, are stored directly as fat. Then why is it you can get "skinny fat" eating a high-carb diet, but not so on a high fat diet?

    Also, I'm speaking of a high-carb day once in a while where I can not care about my macro ratios as much, not as a lifestyle change. I have no insulin, diabetic, or metabolic issues and am not at all overweight.

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