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  1. #1
    A.M. Roots's Avatar
    A.M. Roots is offline Member
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    I'm discouraged

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    I have been PB for about 2 months and had no weight loss. I'm not ridiculously out of shape but definintely have some bulk to shed and was hoping for that response. I was eating a high fat ratio, moderate protein and probably 5-10% carbs from veggies and minute amounts of dairy. NO grains, very few nuts and barely any fruit (gave in to a bit just recently because it felt right).

    I realize my calories were too high and after reading Dr. Eades after Mark I realized that I for one cannont just eat any sum of food (I wasn't pigging out) and lose weight. I definitly need a calorie deficit. My carbs were under 50g and still the dietary fat was not letting my body tap my reserves. Perhaps I can do this PB style? I became heavy feeling however, like I was coating my insides with fat AND I wasn't "regular" There would be a few days in a row where I felt good. I dig the concepts.

    I discovered I am way better off without gluten, and that's nice. Skin cleared up. And after adding dietary fat back into my diet cold hands and feet went away and I believe my immune system is stronger, I learned about Omega ratios and to avoid certain antinutrients, as well as to avoid many vegetable oils, all good things, however I know I gained some weight and am not happy with the way I feel. I want to feel lighter, internally. Like how an apple and light lunch makes you feel yet I now feel guilty for eating an apple like I won't lose weight which is seeming ridiculous to me.

    When I tracked my calories it gave me an idea of my nutritional ratios but it's hard to enter calories into a system when I don't measure when cooking. PB was suppose to be stress free from all that. I defenitely put in a huge effort.

    I really need to find something that works. Many people have amazing results and feel great. Any thoughts? Ideas? I still wake up a bit stiff and seem to have a bit of chronic fatigue but my work schedule is a bit crazy. I don't think it's allergens. I can feel that my switch is off, I 'm not burning fat and that is throwing my body out of balance. I should be 20 lbs lighter.

    I workout. I don't IF, can't yet, I need to be steady with 3 meals first. I have read a lot of all of your posts. I know what many of you think and I agree with much of it but regardless, I feel lame and stuck. I bought whey protein powder and have been drinking it! WTF, I am starting to crash a bit. I just need to find something that will point me in the right direction. Eating less is obvious. What's most important here? Can I just eat healthy, no grains but fruits and veggies with lean meats to keep my cals down and lose? When I was in the best shape of my life I worked out hard, grazed (snacked healthfully throughout the day), had oats in the morning, fruit and veg. used whey, slept good and didn't eat before bed and it worked. Can you tell I'm totally losing it a bit. . . .

  2. #2
    Helen in Oz's Avatar
    Helen in Oz is offline Senior Member
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    1. DON'T PANIC ... two months isn't long. Patience!

    2. To get specific advice, list a couple of day's food intake - ACCURATELY. Don't be vague, list everything you eat and the amounts. A list is easier to read. You'll get better feedback if you do this.

    3. Are you taking any supplements?

    4. How much physical activity are you doing? What is your typical day like physically? (- occupation??)

    5. Stress has a BIG impact on your metabolic state, hormones etc. Is this an issue for you?

    6. How well do you sleep? How many hours?

    7. Any other health issues going on?

    8. What is your current weight/height. How long have you been at that weight?

    that's all I can think of atm...

  3. #3
    Griff's Avatar
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    Weigh and measure for a week or so. After that you'll be able to accurately estimate how much you're taking in. You don't have to do it forever; once it becomes habitual it's easy.

    Don't give up!
    Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

    Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


    Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

    My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

  4. #4
    Sharonll's Avatar
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    I totally hear you about the weighing, measuring, calculating. I was lucky in that I had some rapid weight loss at the beginning without having to calculate, but then I plateaued for THREE months! I felt just like you do now; it's terribly discouraging. But, you're doing the right thing thinking about the health benefits. Try not to give up; this is the healthiest way to eat and to live. I had to start keeping very careful track to start the weight loss again. Last month I lost over 9 pounds, but then, this month nothing so far. I try to think about the fact that it took me a long time to get unhealthy and fat, and it will take a long time to get healthy and slim, and no way am I giving up. I, too, find that I need to watch the calories or I stall. But, today is my first day in over 12 years with no blood pressure medication. I started PB taking two different kinds.

    We all need to do what works for ourselves, and it's a bit different for everyone. You did a great thing asking for help. Keeping a journal is another good way of keeping yourself accountable. It's a journey, and I'm sure you'll learn a lot along the way. Meanwhile, don't quit!

  5. #5
    Pantera's Avatar
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    Anecdotal evidence (from myself and other primals) and science (Taubes) suggest me that you don't really need a calorie deficit, you just need a carb deficit and a healthy metabolism. I've experimented with eating big amounts of (mostly fat) calories and my weight didn't change. I just pooped more or was more energetic (meaning my body naturally made me burn through the extra energy).

    Things to try: try IF, at least for 12 hours or so. That would provide an opportunity for your body to use up your fat reserves. That you can't manage skipping meals is also a little disconcerting, since if you are very low carb you shouldn't have any issues with that.

    Things to check: your hormones and metabolism. Check your thyroid, testosterone or estrogen as applicable, cortisol, etc. Measure ketosis at home as well.

    If you are very low carb and struggle to lose weight there's something going on. Either you are at low body fat % already or something else is not really working well.

    I would be very weary of chronic starvation (aka counting and limiting calories). It will slow down your metabolism and make it harder to lose weight (and you'll re-gain weight as soon as you get some extra carbs).

  6. #6
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    Pantera,

    I agree 100% with what you said---it's just that a lot of us have an effed-up metabolism. I've been Primal since August of last year, and apparently I'm not quite healed up yet. If I eat more than about 1,400 or 1,500 cals per day in the presence of any carbs at all, I can and do gain fat.
    Fortunately, that's a level I can sustain without hardship; I know I'm getting better, because a couple of years ago I could gain on 1,100 or 1,200.

    I'm working to lose about ten more pounds of pesky fat, so I've been tracking. But I know I'm on the right path, so it's not a big deal

  7. #7
    A.M. Roots's Avatar
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    I really appreciate everyone's input. I definitely have body image issues and it has been bad lately. I'm typically a happy go lucky gal that prides in being fairly fit and now it doesn't matter how good I do with anything I am just uncomfortable in my own skin (I hate having to admit that).

    I think genetically the only difference amongst us all is that some people have insulin receptors that are more active and sensitive normally, hence why some people can just be thin. I've noticed many of these types of people can fast easier than I. Other than that I agree that this is one of the healthiest ways to eat.

    I am about 168lbs. 5'10" female, (good amount of muscle mass but bad strenght to weight ratio) I can bang out 15 push ups but no pull ups

    I love to workout, lift 2-3 times a week and same with running, about 10minute miles for 3.5-5mi. and lots of walks with the dogs

    My job is standing with some activity for 8 1/2 hours. Sometimes my shift is 6:30am sometimes it starts at 2pm so my sleep schedule is horrible. I nap a lot and sometimes that causes me to be lethargic and miss workouts.

    I was eating too much but very low carb and I gained weight. Definitely. Over 2200 calories didn't realize it at first because fat cals add up fast. Just was doing the PB thing. No IF's, I have to get good and consistent with eating 3 meals a day first but youre right about the simple idea of fasting at night. I didn't give myself enough time between dinner and breakfast. Also the work schedule not only messes with my sleep but my meal times. I'm a creature of habit so it bums me out.

    I never journaled but would eat:

    3-4 eggs over easy cooked in coconut oil
    some veg like spinach and onions
    1/2 avocado
    hard cheese
    coffee and cream

    Lunch and dinner were similar
    Roasted chicken, Bison meat, Pork steak/ribs, stew beef, sometimes bacon and eggs
    I really cut back on a lot of vegetables, only leafy greens ( I think this is where I went wrong because it would have kept my cals down and helped to satiate me) . . .I'm like to eat.

    I would also have a small can of coconut milk and plenty of cream in my coffee (about 2 a day) at first I ate nuts but gave them up.

    I feel like I snacked more which I know is bad but it was all low carb high fat nutrition to make a point.

    I supplement, a multi vitamin, magnesium citrate, omega 3's DHA and EPA, 2000 to 5000 IU's D3, and Vitamin C with ALA's

    I have been heavier in my past, weight has fluctuated for the last year (10-20lbs) due to dieting, traveling, mountaineering, getting sick while mountaineering. One of the diets I did was a protein packet diet with supplements that put you into ketosis 4-6 wks. and was very calorie restrictive. Gained quick, started working out hard and counted cals eating low fat and started to be happy with my strength and looks. Started PB gained it all back. That's why it seems like a calorie issue to me. When I keep it simple and just eat real food in low calorie amounts my body feels good and responds. Yes, you could do this with PB, just eat less overall and probably cut out most of the diary. I just feel lost however. The key ingredients for success could be right in front of my face and I wouldn't see them. I turn 27 in a few days and am just unhappy. Sounds like a pitty party but it's effecting everything in my life, Ugh.

    Anyway, thanks for your input and encouragement. I want to do this well.

  8. #8
    hannahc's Avatar
    hannahc is offline Senior Member
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    Okay I'm not in exactly the same boat, but I've been Primal for almost a year (11 months anyway) and actually gained oh, somewhere between 8-10 pounds of fat. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me, and it was driving me crazy because I'm only 5'2" so pounds show really quickly. Some other women, especially smaller women like myself, were talking about the effects of eating too much protein as it relates to thyroid issues and gluconeogenesis (body turning protein into glucose to use as fuel), and mentioned that eating too much protein was causing them to either plateau or gain weight.

    I was eating probably 100-120 grams of protein per day, which is 1g/lb Lean Body Mass or more for me, plus a good amount of fat and very few carbs. Still exercising a lot, lots of slow moving with walking/yoga/pilates and some circuit style body weight workouts and running. After just 10 days of lowering my protein and replacing protein calories with fat I finally lost weight again. THANK GOODNESS! I've been adding Coconut Oil to my morning coffee, and having another tablespoon in either coffee or tea later in the day too, so 2-3 tablespoons per day to up my fat intake and keep me full and happy. I've lowered my protein to between 50-75 grams per day, so .5g/lb LBM-ish is my goal, and am keeping carbs in the 50-100g/day range.

    You're a lot taller than me, and have a higher LBM so you can afford to eat more protein, but my suggestion is to try lowering it to the .5g/lb LBM for a while to see how it affects you. It's enough to fill your protein needs, but not excessive for a woman! Don't forget to keep your fat intake higher, since you'll probably feel hungry if you just lower your protein and don't change your fat intake accordingly. Good luck!
    You are what you eat,
    and what you eat eats too - Michael Pollan


  9. #9
    A.M. Roots's Avatar
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    Interesting Hannah, lowering your protein broke a bad pattern. I've read a good amount about gluconeogenisis. Definitely some credit there. I will consider that. When I was 145-150lbs I used a protein powder with my workouts and to curb appetite, however, many factors have changed since then. For one thing I'm 5yrs older and have had major weight fluctuations and some health issues but those are all a bit better now. Also my overall diet was different. Higher protein, probably 150-200 g of carbs and low fat. Lifted heavy 5 days a week at 9:00pm. After a significant amount of weight loss started running other than that I could squeeze out 1 mile in twelve minutes before my workout. Best shape of my life (AT LEAST HOW I LOOKED). Now I mountaineer, race, bike, lift more functionally and Im 20lbs heavier. So everything we consume and do works together to produce the results we get. It's more than just controlling what we put into our mouths it's very hormonal, at least for me. So perhaps there are many right paths to feeling good and getting results but for optimal performance and health; the science doesn't lie.

    Question for you all, When I got into really good shape I used soy protein powder because I didn't know any better. Now I avoid it like the plague. One of my symptoms is hormonal dips in energy about 7 days before my menstrual cycle. I feel sick, and tired and sore. Not so crampy. I had an obgyn want me to take birth control to sustain my progesterone over the 30 day period and not have any random dips ( she was guessing mind you) I considered it but, 1. I'm gay so why take birth control, 2. I hate the idea of putting that in my body 3. I mountaineer at high altitudes and it's dangerous and finally, 4. It's damn expensive when insurance doesnt cover it!
    Do you think the estrogen enhancing effects of soy was helping me at all?

  10. #10
    MalPaz's Avatar
    MalPaz is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannahc View Post
    Okay I'm not in exactly the same boat, but I've been Primal for almost a year (11 months anyway) and actually gained oh, somewhere between 8-10 pounds of fat. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me, and it was driving me crazy because I'm only 5'2" so pounds show really quickly. Some other women, especially smaller women like myself, were talking about the effects of eating too much protein as it relates to thyroid issues and gluconeogenesis (body turning protein into glucose to use as fuel), and mentioned that eating too much protein was causing them to either plateau or gain weight.

    I was eating probably 100-120 grams of protein per day, which is 1g/lb Lean Body Mass or more for me, plus a good amount of fat and very few carbs. Still exercising a lot, lots of slow moving with walking/yoga/pilates and some circuit style body weight workouts and running. After just 10 days of lowering my protein and replacing protein calories with fat I finally lost weight again. THANK GOODNESS! I've been adding Coconut Oil to my morning coffee, and having another tablespoon in either coffee or tea later in the day too, so 2-3 tablespoons per day to up my fat intake and keep me full and happy. I've lowered my protein to between 50-75 grams per day, so .5g/lb LBM-ish is my goal, and am keeping carbs in the 50-100g/day range.

    You're a lot taller than me, and have a higher LBM so you can afford to eat more protein, but my suggestion is to try lowering it to the .5g/lb LBM for a while to see how it affects you. It's enough to fill your protein needs, but not excessive for a woman! Don't forget to keep your fat intake higher, since you'll probably feel hungry if you just lower your protein and don't change your fat intake accordingly. Good luck!

    what youre doing sounds like a PSMF.... and low in calories... i know youre small but make sure youre not starving yoruself only to slow down your metabolism more

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