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Thread: So, why men won't lift weights? page 64

  1. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post

    If you are fit and healthy and look amazeballs and are a hard body, you have a right to be all Mr. Anthony proud of yourself. Hell, go proclaim your sexy awesomeness and show photos, thanks. But you don't need to insult and put down the people who haven't achieved what you have achieved.
    I just want to go on record and point out that in a thread about "why men won't lift weights" I gave a couple of reasons why men won't, and why men should. I'd never tell some average to above-average sized woman she was a "hog", especially not Magnolia, my internet-crush.

  2. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    I can vouch that for me, that lunch would make me want to go eat a cupcake the way a crackhead wants crack. You know the fat free yogurt with fruit sets you up to need the double whipped latte with extra syrup and twelve shots.

    For whatever reason, for a shit ton of people, carbs not balanced with protein and fat set up sugar cravings that are no joke.

    And it has not a thing to do about discipline. The day I stopped eating grains as a main part of my diet, started to eat meat and threw in some fat was the day I stopped having crack like cravings for sugar at 3pm every day. That's not discipline, that's a reaction to a food....I imagine that type of issue explains at least a good portion of the crap people by.

    I never even had carb flu. It was like someone turned off a switch.
    This. It's not the carbs in the whole grain sandwich, or the carbs in the rice in the sushi rolls - it's the carbs I was craving 2 house later.

  3. #633
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    I still think you guys are making it too complex. Entertain for a moment this simple idea...

    People eat what's there.

    The food supply in the USA is what it is, someone needs to eat it. It's true *an individual* could fly above the masses, and not eat it, we on MDA exist. But the masses have no other possible outcome than obesity.

    To give an example from the stock market; I can outperform the market, but the masses can't outperform the market, because the masses *are* the market.

    Note I'm not talking about what I'd like to be true, but rather observing what happens. Each time sugar, white flour and processed foods are introduced to a society, and reach levels that begin displacing real foods, the food supply by definition has changed, and people must eat the food supply, therefore they must get fat.

    They *must* eat more calories, and get fatter, to get the same nutrition (because empty calories have displaced real foods). So "eat less" will only result in nutritional deficiencies.

    The only thing we could say is "yes, but by demanding real food the food supply could be changed."

    Meh, perhaps, but it would require significant government intervention, funding, redistribution of labor, changing of societal values.

  4. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    If you all are unwilling to admit that MOST obese people are that way because they eat too much, I dont know what else to say
    But taken as a whole, a society, they have no other choice.

    We know Americans are eating more, 2,700 calories. We know 60% of these calories are sugar, grains and vegetable oil. That means they are getting 1,080 real calories from meat, milk, vegi, fruit and nuts. The sugar is worthless. Lets be generous and say the bread and vegi oil are worth 40% "real calories", so +430. Now they are getting 1,500 calories from real food.

    Thus even though they over eat, they are under nourished and feel like shit.

    Lets say they go on a diet and reduce their standard US food supply ration by 25%. They are now getting 2,000 calories, and in *theory* won't get fat, but are only eating 1,100 of real foods!

    If they just "cut back" they will feel severely undernourished.

  5. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    I still think you guys are making it too complex. Entertain for a moment this simple idea...

    People eat what's there.

    The food supply in the USA is what it is, someone needs to eat it. It's true *an individual* could fly above the masses, and not eat it, we on MDA exist. But the masses have no other possible outcome than obesity.
    I am not sure how this makes sense. The food is produced by private business (largely and ignoring issues like subsidies). Private business does not make more product, especially perishable product, unless there's a sale to be made. Coca Cola is not going to produce 20% more Coca Cola for the US market, if it does not have, or predict, demand for its product to increase. Otherwise, it's just spending more on costs without the corresponding demand from the market.

    Also, we have not had any kind of food shortages here during the obesity epidemic. So why would an increase in the food supply make people eat more? Would you eat more if the supermarket got 50% larger? I guess if the supply is huge, the prices could come down and increase consumption, but this goes back to my previous point, why increase the supply unless there's demand first?

    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    Note I'm not talking about what I'd like to be true, but rather observing what happens. Each time sugar, white flour and processed foods are introduced to a society, and reach levels that begin displacing real foods, the food supply by definition has changed, and people must eat the food supply, therefore they must get fat.

    They *must* eat more calories, and get fatter, to get the same nutrition (because empty calories have displaced real foods). So "eat less" will only result in nutritional deficiencies.

    The only thing we could say is "yes, but by demanding real food the food supply could be changed."

    Meh, perhaps, but it would require significant government intervention, funding, redistribution of labor, changing of societal values.
    Here's the question though. The food is profit. Profit comes from selling what's in demand. If the customer is asking for a Twix bar, would, from a business standpoint, you instead try to sell them broccoli, or would you sell them a Twix bar?

    There's a lot of white flour, and sugar, and other junk out there because there's demand for these things. If people would shy away from them and buy other things, the companies would make more of the other things. It's happening now with whole grain, for example. There's a craze for whole grain, and now tons of products and companies are making whole grain food. 5 Hour Energy drinks came out a few years back. Now every energy drink maker has a "shot" style drink like 5 Hour Energy. Why? People buy it. Lots of it.

    People are not eating junk food just because it is there and someone must eat it. People are eating junk food because they want it, and businesses make money by offering people what they want to buy. If people chose kale salad with sardines as the typical lunch of choice, there would be a kale and sardine joint on every corner.

    Demand drives the food supply, not the other way around.

  6. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    But why did everyone suddenly decide gluttony was the way, the truth and the light? Could it possibly be because government and science told them that their hearts would explode if they continued to eat steak and eggs? Can you find a single older person in your life who doesn't believe this and think you are a nutcase for not believing it?
    It's a complex issue, no doubt. I think it's definitely not as simple as the government demonizing fat.

    I think there are many reasons for more gluttony. Food is cheap and abundant in the US. Lots of food is crappy. The crappy food, unfortunately, many consider tasty. How many Americans actually dislike the taste of burgers, donuts, fries, soda, etc? People love that crap.

    Consider too that most people are not really following the dietary guidelines either. If you look at the new "plate" the government recommends, it is basically 1/2 fruit and vegetables, and about 1/4 meat and 1/4 grains (grains are more like 30% I think, not quite a quarter), and a little dairy. Is that what most Americans strive to eat? Where does the 24oz Coke fit into that government recommendation? What about the Big Mac, which is actually full of that evil saturated fat? People still eat/drink globs of both.

    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Soda is non-fat. And every fat lady drinks diet soda so don't even go there on the soda.

    Who eats fried chicken and Pepsi? A lot of thin guys do and a lot of fat everybody's do. How come some people eat that shit and don't get fat? They're eating gluttonous disgusting foods, too.
    Soda is not recommended by the medical establishment. I'd like to find a reputable doctor that advises his patients to drink soda. People just want to drink it because they like it, lots of it.

    People have different metabolisms and people's bodies respond differently. Two people can eat the same and one can be skinny and one flabby. That said, if they both eat less, they both will lose weight, if they both eat more, they both will gain weight. Basic biology does not change, just the rate and the type of tissue that grows/gets used for energy varies from person to person.

    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    How come I managed to lose 35lbs eating at Taco Bell and Carl's Jr. every single night. My favorites were the 7-Layer Burrito and the AYCE salad bar with copious creamy jello squares. Not to mention cheese burgers and fries with a diet coke.

    How come I maintained a thick layer of cottage-cheesey hog fat hiking 30 miles daily for 3 months?

    How come none of this works the way everybody says it does?
    I think it works like everyone knows it works. You eat less you lose weight. You eat more, you gain weight. The issue is complex because of issues like satiety, effect on health, cravings, genetic predisposition to lean mass vs fat, etc come into play. However, just because the issue is complex, does not change the basic premise that more energy consumed will equal more energy to be stored by the body as fat, as well as the other way around.

  7. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    I am not sure how this makes sense. The food is produced by private business (largely and ignoring issues like subsidies). Private business does not make more product, especially perishable product, unless there's a sale to be made. Coca Cola is not going to produce 20% more Coca Cola for the US market, if it does not have, or predict, demand for its product to increase. Otherwise, it's just spending more on costs without the corresponding demand from the market.
    You are discounting the fact that Coca Cola is an active participant. It can actively influence, manipulate demand. Addictions could be theorized as the individual's own responsibility, however in practice there is a subtle inter-play of many factors.

    Perhaps you could also argue that people are math-challenged because they choose to be and IF they tried harder, they would not be so. It is difficult to attribute stupidity to laziness. I have seen a lot of hardworking students who simply don't cut it.
    Few but ripe.

  8. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    Coca Cola is not going to produce 20% more Coca Cola for the US market, if it does not have, or predict, demand for its product to increase.
    You are thinking fast food companies do not understand human nature; that people eat what's there.

    But they understand it very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    Also, we have not had any kind of food shortages here during the obesity epidemic. So why would an increase in the food supply make people eat more?
    That's wasn't my point, my point was people will always eat what's there, and what's currently there absolutely makes them fat (because it did). I didn't really want to go into the weeds on why what's there makes them fat. I don't think it is CICO. Although in the end they DID end up eating more, but I would theorize that was because of the foods that were there (sugar/grains).

    People will have a nutritional deficiency eating 60% grains/sugar, they thus have to scale up their plate to get enough nutrients to survive. Remember we are not talking about a small displacement like 15%, we are talking about *60%*. That they are only eating 2,700 is actually kind of amazing self-control.

    Others will bring up carbs make you fat; they make you hungry, they spike insulin, you need to eat more. There's a lot of evidence to believe that's the case, but it's not my point and it doesn't matter. What's there did make them fat.

    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    Here's the question though. The food is profit. Profit comes from selling what's in demand. There's a lot of white flour, and sugar, and other junk out there because there's demand for these things. If people would shy away from them and buy other things, the companies would make more of the other things.

    Demand drives the food supply, not the other way around.
    Yes, I understand. I'm an economics man and knew people would bring up supply/demand which is why I addressed it in my post. It is the standard way of thinking about the problem. To summarize their view: Americans believe they each make individual choices and should be held accountable for that (it's their fault, not the corporation), and that markets will adjust (following their demands, not the corporation's influence) and supply/demand will take care of things.

    I'm suggesting an alternate hypothesis free of encumbrances on how things "should" work; that people eat what's there. Making no statements about how things came to be (meh perhaps it was driven by supply/demand or perhaps it was driven by the corporation's manipulation of human nature or perhaps government intervention with their carbo dietary recommendations). Doesn't matter, food supply problem exists now.

    This is absolutely true in the short-term. Tomorrow the US population has no other option than to eat what's there, 60% grains/sugar/vegioil. That will make them fat, because it did. We could discuss why, but it doesn't matter.

    Sooooooo, so that only leaves one option: changing what's there over the long-term. But this is where it gets weird. Nobody has any idea how to do that. We can't say "oh we are going to have McD and SBUX on every block trying to exploit you with location and over-supply of sugary substances, and a massive shortage of healthy Mom & Pop restaurants, but DON'T eat what's there". People have to eat something, and we've already seen what they do.

    Americans are struggling to resolve this, they refuse to restrict corporations because their values say to restrict free-markets is wrong, and their values worked up until now, but clearly this problem exists and isn't resolving itself thru free-markets.

    Einstein put this this way; "you can't solve a problem by using the same thinking you used to create the problem".

  9. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by 70in2012 View Post
    You are discounting the fact that Coca Cola is an active participant. It can actively influence, manipulate demand.
    Right, a *very* active participant.

    I'm not sure supply = demand works with sugar or other addictive substances. Or it does, and that's the problem; because the demand for sugar is infinite?

    Kids naturally run to sugar and eat it first. That's human nature. You put it there, they eat it. Increasing supply, increases demand. Three SBUX on one corner?

  10. #640
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    This is my take on "dieting" LOL...

    The dieting cycle:
    So, here is why so many women at least are overweight.
    So one day, you sit there and are like “Dayum, my clothes don’t fit, time to diet”. You recall your past failures and realize that you can’t muster the desire to drink two “healthy delicious” shakes a day ever again. It’s time to “change your lifestyle”.
    Years of watching Oprah and reading Self magazine have you certain that jogging 6 days a week and eating a healthy, whole grain diet low in fat is the key to looking like Gwen Paltrow did in that InStyle spread where she shared 5 delightful low fat vegan recipes that all her fabulous friends love even more than pizza and cheese fries. And BONUS…Dr. Oz agrees with Gwennie and Oprah and he is a Doctor.
    Week 1:
    So you make a trip to stock the fridge. Mmmm….fruits, veggies, one pack of low fat chicken breasts (double check, you did get low fat chicken breasts right, not fatty ones?). Gwennie loves the $10 a pack tofu so some of that will do. Oatmeal. You need oatmeal to lose weight. And skim milk. Quinoa and kasha. And eggwhites, just buy the egg beaters, works out cheaper. Let’s see, some Whole Grain Tortillas (hmm, they have 75 more calories than the white ones, but Dr. Oz said they will keep me fuller). Yogurt, must have yogurt- oooo….fat free/sugar free Key Lime Pie! Dessert for breakfast oh hell yeah. Oh and I need to put the bananas back. I read in Shape that those are why people are fat.
    You dust off the running shoes and head out for a jog. Get home, spend 3 hours making Gwennie’s ultimate low fat quinoa power salad. You didn’t have the $28.95 for Goji Seed Oil and maybe excluding that is why it tastes like shit. But you are making a “Lifestyle Change”. You are feeling hungry but fabulous.
    Week 2:
    People at work have noticed that you have stopped raiding the candy dish. You mention your diet and they are all “Oh hell yeah, you look amazeballs”. They offer you cake and you are all “Oh hell No” and while you dig into your “Fat Free German Chocolate Yogurt Product” you notice the hot guy in accounting eating bacon. You mentally think to yourself “He’s going to have a heart attack in 5 years but when I look like Gwennie Ima gonna drag him into the copy room and lick his abs”. You fail to realize this is a sign that you need to eat some meat.
    Week 3:
    This is getting hard. Really hard. So you ask the tweaked out temp receptionist how she stays thin. She hands you a bottle of “Metabolic Burn Pills” (they are endorsed by Jillian Micheals- SCORE). You spend the rest of the week tweaked out like Speedy Gonzales. The pills at $49.95 for a one week supply mean you can’t afford chicken. No worries. People in the US eat way too much protein, like that hot guy in accounting with the yummy biceps. Again, you miss your bodies hint to eat some god damn meat.
    Week 4:
    The ladies in the office summon you for Birthday cake day. You pop 2 “Metabolic Burns” and tell them to fuck off. You want the whole cake, but can’t summon the energy to get down the hall because you ran too hard last night to burn off the banana you binged on. So you surf online and there it is “Gwennie’s Cellulite Shocker”. WTF? She has porked up from a size 0 to a size 2!!!!!! So you go and walk, anywhere. You see hot guy from accounting eating his bacon. You ponder using your Cardio Kick skills to steal it. You decide not to. On the way home, you swing by Hardees and eat a Triple Thick Bacon Burger, Large Fries and a shake.
    Week 5:
    You recover from the weekend’s food fest with the sobering realization that you have to work even harder unless you want to be a fat cow like Gwennie. So you order “Insane Crazy Work Out”, throw out all the fruit in the house, and reduce your chicken allotment to 3 ounces a day. You tear your tortilla in half. Now you are cooking with fire. You pop 4 “Metabolic Burns”.
    Week 6:
    You step on the scale and see no weight lost. You cry to your friend and she offers kindly “oh, jogging must be putting on muscle”. Surely your clothes fit different? Yeah, looser over the boobs, tighter over the thighs. You double check that you aren’t washing in hot water. You modify your diet to raw vegan and double up on the “Insane Crazy Work Out”.
    Week 7:
    Birthday Cake Day. You glare. The perky woman in marketing skips in and lets you know you are “LOOKING GREAT” and informs you that she lost “25 lbs on Weight Watchers”. She lets you know that “everything in moderation works for her”, except you notice that her pants are snugger and she kind of looks like she has put on weight. You hand her the last of your “Metabolic Burns” pills (Jillian recommends these) and she smiles gratefully. You laugh privately “silly fool eats bananas”.
    Week 8:
    You turn on Oprah. She looks fat again. Really? A god damn personal chef and trainer and she still looks fat? Her guest is Gwennie. Gwennie is now a raw vegan and doing daily cleanses with her personal yogi. “The cellulite is gone and I am back to size 0”. She is also premiering a line of slimming undergarments that smooth her out under her yoga togs. Hmmm… “Metabolic Burns” or a pair of “Yoga Slims” so you can look hot while doing “Insane Crazy Work Out”. You say *(^*&^ it and order a pizza, throw on your sweat pants and watch Reality TV. You think dirty thoughts about that guy in accounting with the huge powerful thighs that barely fit in his dockers. I mean, all he eats is meat. You keep missing your body’s hint to eat a steak.
    Week 9:
    You go to work armed with your Lean Cuisine and a bagel with fat free cream cheese. You eat the birthday cake. You chirp “everything in moderation”. 8 weeks of agony netted you a 3lb loss and the new “Yoga Slims” you bought mean you can wear last years khakis. You give your “Insane Crazy Work Out” dvd’s to the perky lady from Marketing who is doing “The Hollywood Super Cleanse”.

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