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Thread: Question minimum Carb intake for brain when NOT in Ketosis page 3

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I would hardly call the SAD low carb. Yes it is high fat and yes I agree that it is often the "bad fats". I think that that is a convenient trick to let sugar off the hook however, the Peatarian premise that "sugar is fine, it's the PUFAs that are the problem so mainline sodas but don't eat salmon or you might die."
    There is nothing to let off the hook, sugar is beneficial, it's only in the context of high PUFA intake that paints sugar in a bad light. How many people do you know consume all the right sugars and have replicated the same symptoms as a SAD diet? It's the fat that is the culprit, as well as the non-food chemicals, and overconsumption of the wrong kinds of nutrient poor calories.

    I've been peating for quite some time, and my health has only improved.
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  2. #22
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    Totally agree with the nutrient poor calories idea, but then what is sugar? The ultimate in empty calories.

    You started out skinny and are still skinny. So eating like a hummingbird may work for you. That doesn't mean it generalizes to other people.

    Poor misunderstood sugar. Awwwww.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Totally agree with the nutrient poor calories idea, but then what is sugar? The ultimate in empty calories.

    You started out skinny and are still skinny. So eating like a hummingbird may work for you. That doesn't mean it generalizes to other people.

    Poor misunderstood sugar. Awwwww.
    It's 15 calories a serving, and does more beneficially rather than cause oxidative stress via excessive fat intake and indigestible food products.

    I thought you were trying to vilify carbs and herald gluconeogenesis and fat as superior fuel though?
    nihil

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincebae View Post
    It is advised to take less than 50g carb a day to stay in ketosis.
    Also, as far as I know, it is said that brain needs 100~150g carb a day.
    Now, what happens if I take 50 ~ 100g carb a day which will not induce ketosis but also not enough to fuel brain without ketone?
    you make it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    Because glucose is the preferential fuel for the brain and body, of course. It does anything it can to make sure it acquires glucose in some way. There is no switch or adaptation short of prolonged starvation or ketosis diets, that's a myth a falsity.

    Also, the fact, fat is an inefficient fuel as stated earlier.
    No, the body does anything it can to make sure blood sugar levels don't go sky high. By sky high I mean more than a teaspoon of circulating glucose. To do that it shunts any excess out of the blood stream by turning it into fat...the preferential form of energy for most activities and functions. The only glucose it does anything it can to get is the 30ish grams per day physiologically required by the brain. That's it.

    Saying because your body will burn glucose before fat therefore it's the preferential fuel is like saying it prefers alcohol before glucose because it deals with that first. Our body is quite good at removing toxic levels of glucose and alcohol from our blood stream. That doesn't mean it prefers them to fat. The only form of fuel we can store in significant amounts. By significant I mean enough to get you through a famine not a few hours of cardio.

    And yes, after subjecting your body to prolonged periods of forcing it to run on high amounts of carbohydrates there is an adaptation period. Some people make that adaptation easier than others. There is actual science confirming this. If you're genuinely interested I'll post it otherwise I won't waste my time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0Angel0 View Post
    No, the body does anything it can to make sure blood sugar levels don't go sky high. By sky high I mean more than a teaspoon of circulating glucose. To do that it shunts any excess out of the blood stream by turning it into fat...the preferential form of energy for most activities and functions. The only glucose it does anything it can to get is the 30ish grams per day physiologically required by the brain. That's it.

    Saying because your body will burn glucose before fat therefore it's the preferential fuel is like saying it prefers alcohol before glucose because it deals with that first. Our body is quite good at removing toxic levels of glucose and alcohol from our blood stream. That doesn't mean it prefers them to fat. The only form of fuel we can store in significant amounts. By significant I mean enough to get you through a famine not a few hours of cardio.

    And yes, after subjecting your body to prolonged periods of forcing it to run on high amounts of carbohydrates there is an adaptation period. Some people make that adaptation easier than others. There is actual science confirming this. If you're genuinely interested I'll post it otherwise I won't waste my time.
    What happens when you eat carbohydrates and or enough protein while in ketosis? Now, what happens when you eat fat and or protein while not in ketosis?

    Still pulling that? Yes, post it.

    Regarding blood sugar: Your blood sugar is the level of sugar circulating to your cells. If the level drops too low, then your cells are starving to death. If the levels are too high then it is likely that your cells are not getting enough sugar, and there probably isn't any process in the body that doesn't potentially affect blood sugar.

    You have it backwards.
    Last edited by Derpamix; 05-26-2013 at 09:15 PM.
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    The brain is always capable of burning both glucose and ketones in whatever proportion is available at the moment.

  8. #28
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    An interesting article from Dr Eades about the subject of oxidative stress.

    Low-carb diets reduce oxidative stress The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    What happens when you eat carbohydrates and or enough protein while in ketosis? Now, what happens when you eat fat and or protein while not in ketosis?
    If you never eat another gram of carbohydrate again in your life will you die? What about if you never eat another gram of protein or fat? See? I can do it too.

    Still pulling that? Yes, post it.
    Still pulling what?? I have no idea what that means other than you are being petulant and grumpy because the science doesn't support your position and I could present you the best studies in the world and if you even understoon them and could properly analyze them you still wouldn't be convinced.

    If you really are interested go to pub med and do some searches on fatty acid oxidation, metabolic flexibility, and insulin resistance. Specifically how the impaired ability by heart and skeletal muscle to oxidize fatty acids makes you feel really crappy! It's not that hard to find. Or you could explain to me why the gnolls.org post (who lays it out more brilliantly than I could) is wrong.

    Anecdotally, I went through carb flu when first starting Atkins now I know I feel crappier when I flirt with carb levels that take me out of ketosis but I don't experience carb flu when dropping carbs back down. But that's probably just all in my head.

    Regarding blood sugar: Your blood sugar is the level of sugar circulating to your cells. If the level drops too low, then your cells are starving to death. If the levels are too high then it is likely that your cells are not getting enough sugar, and there probably isn't any process in the body that doesn't potentially affect blood sugar.
    Congratulations on having a rudimentary understanding of what blood sugar is. Your last paragraph highlights the "rudimentary" part though.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0Angel0 View Post
    If you never eat another gram of carbohydrate again in your life will you die? What about if you never eat another gram of protein or fat? See? I can do it too.
    Your body will produce fat via excess carbs, you said it yourself, though your hypothesis stated wasn't quite right. So, nothing will happen, except you'll be missing out on some of the balancing effects of fat when it comes to slowing the entrance of protein and carbs into the bloodstream, and probably end up with blood sugar dysregulation, same as low carb/high fat. Protein is vital, but without the blood sugar balance of carbs, your blood sugar will drop drastically because the ingestion of protein causes the release of insulin because insulin is required to metabolize amino acids. This spurs gluconeogenesis to convert protein containing tissues into sugar so the body can have a steady supply of energy.


    Still pulling what?? I have no idea what that means other than you are being petulant and grumpy because the science doesn't support your position and I could present you the best studies in the world and if you even understoon them and could properly analyze them you still wouldn't be convinced.

    If you really are interested go to pub med and do some searches on fatty acid oxidation, metabolic flexibility, and insulin resistance. Specifically how the impaired ability by heart and skeletal muscle to oxidize fatty acids makes you feel really crappy! It's not that hard to find. Or you could explain to me why the gnolls.org post (who lays it out more brilliantly than I could) is wrong.
    I've read it before, I'm not convinced by pseudo-science.




    Congratulations on having a rudimentary understanding of what blood sugar is. Your last paragraph highlights the "rudimentary" part though.
    It was necessary to explain it in a remedial way when you clearly don't even understand the rudiments. Not sure why you attempt to be condescending, when you can't refute a single claim properly nor even produce your own sources and citations. Simply telling me to "pubmed" it, means you don't grasp a single biological, physiological, or other aspect of what you're saying and you're probably afraid you'll post something irrelevant, or worse, something that refutes your claim and backs mine up. I've seen it happen before, with J. Stanton. :3 Pubmed is a medical site anyway, it's not the best place to get information from all things considering.

    Also, funny how you mention 30g minimum glucose for the brain without any citations. Where did you even pull this arbitrary number? lol
    Last edited by Derpamix; 05-28-2013 at 04:35 PM.
    nihil

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