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  1. #991
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  3. #993
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    This has a problem with entropy increase, as in, it would have reached thermodynamic equilibrium by now. We are not at thermodynamic equilibrium, and life requires non-equilibrium to exist.


    Existence of God can be explained both a priori an a posteriori. The entire metaphysic is firmly based on two laws of logic, the identity of indescernables and the principle of sufficient reason. God is an uncaused cause. Universe is a definition, and existence is an axiom.
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    4 degrees warmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    This has a problem with entropy increase, as in, it would have reached thermodynamic equilibrium by now. We are not at thermodynamic equilibrium, and life requires non-equilibrium to exist.


    Existence of God can be explained both a priori an a posteriori. The entire metaphysic is firmly based on two laws of logic, the identity of indescernables and the principle of sufficient reason. God is an uncaused cause. Universe is a definition, and existence is an axiom.
    Why you be making me use my brain even more during finals?????

    Ugh.

    I am no physics whiz whatsoever (all my sci courses were chemistry chemistry bio bio chemistry...engineering is math/programming) But as I see it, the laws of thermodynamics are true for this world, this universe as we know it. It could be different laws in the universe that was shrinking. What if entropy actually decreased in that universe? What if the contraction caused the entropy decrease? Applying the laws we have which are derived from the world we currently live in to refute the possibility of a different world seems very... Biased.

    I don't think a simple decrease on entropy due to contraction is a good enough argument for the oscillation theory to fall. Oscillation seems way more reasonable due to the cyclical nature of everything else (oscillating reactions; most equilibrium reactions are going back and forth in real time, Etc. ). Circular time is also something the eastern cultures believe in rather than linear time. Like I said, this is all speculation to me anyway (feeble human beings trying to use their limited powers to understand something as great as the universe... Either through god or science).

    The scientist would reject your explanation of why there must be god. Your explanation does not meet the heightened scrutiny you yourself apply to every scientific theory. It is presumptive. I always disliked this part about Descartes' proof of God too... His proofs are always solid and then his proof for God was so weaksauce.


    I would just rather not try to explain things I don't know how to explain... Not with science, not with religion... But just accept it as mystery and as magic. I see it as things the human being cannot actually process because the information isn't even being downloaded. We cannot see, hear, etc many things. Our machines cannot pick up many things either. A flower looks different to us than to a bee who sees in UV spectrum. We might not understand why a bee mistakes the flower for a mate unless we chose to view it under uv as well. Thus for many many centuries we didn't "understand" the true magnificence of the flower. What if there are so many other perception mistakes we are making but we don't know that we don't know?

    Human beings are sdumb. I prefer to remain humble... rather than arrogant with either science or religion.
    Last edited by turquoisepassion; 12-05-2013 at 07:10 AM.
    ------
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  6. #996
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    Quote Originally Posted by turquoisepassion View Post

    I would just rather not try to explain things I don't know how to explain... Not with science, not with religion... But just accept it as mystery and as magic. I see it as things the human being cannot actually process because the information isn't even being downloaded. We cannot see, hear, etc many things. Our machines cannot pick up many things either. A flower looks different to us than to a bee who sees in UV spectrum. We might not understand why a bee mistakes the flower for a mate unless we chose to view it under uv as well. Thus for many many centuries we didn't "understand" the true magnificence of the flower. What if there are so many other perception mistakes we are making but we don't know that we don't know?

    Human beings are sdumb. I prefer to remain humble... rather than arrogant with either science or religion.
    TPQ, I feel the same. I believe modern humans are handicapped, we've lost some of our finer senses and our abilities of perception. There were times in the past (and it is still true in some tribal cultures) where plants communicated with humans. I know it sounds far fetched but some tribal people have explained to anthropologists that this is how they knew to use certain plants. They were told in a dream or altered state that the plants would be beneficial. Western science contends that it was through trial and error that humans learned to use plants. That's just one example of how our ability to perceive things has been altered. For most of us our senses are very blunt instruments, just barely able to function.

    I also believe that we can reawaken/activate our senses through practice. Physically we still posses the ability. I've read that humans have as many sense receptors as dogs but they aren't turned on. When my son was born my midwife advised me to not shower or use perfumes so that my newborn could not only navigate his way to the breast but so that he would "know" my smell. That told me that his sense of smell was activated, switched on at birth. In a culture that relied on that sense I imagine it would be continually stimulated and developed.

    The other thing that humbled me and showed me that I know far less than i thought I knew was the study of sacred geometry. It's truly amazing and beautiful to learn about the underlying patterns in nature. The world is so much more complex than we can imagine.
    Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

  7. #997
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    I actually think we were always thus limited... But I would would say maybe in the past our capacities were slightly greater.

    I believe what any animal, plant, or whatever perceives/can comprehend is extremely limited by that being's sensory download.
    ------
    HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

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  8. #998
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    Quote Originally Posted by turquoisepassion View Post
    I am no physics whiz whatsoever (all my sci courses were chemistry chemistry bio bio chemistry...engineering is math/programming) But as I see it, the laws of thermodynamics are true for this world, this universe as we know it. It could be different laws in the universe that was shrinking. What if entropy actually decreased in that universe? What if the contraction caused the entropy decrease? Applying the laws we have which are derived from the world we currently live in to refute the possibility of a different world seems very... Biased.

    I don't think a simple decrease on entropy due to contraction is a good enough argument for the oscillation theory to fall. Oscillation seems way more reasonable due to the cyclical nature of everything else (oscillating reactions; most equilibrium reactions are going back and forth in real time, Etc. ). Circular time is also something the eastern cultures believe in rather than linear time. Like I said, this is all speculation to me anyway (feeble human beings trying to use their limited powers to understand something as great as the universe... Either through god or science).
    Borde-Vilenkin-Guth Theorem: any universe, which has, on average, a rate of expansion greater 1 that system had to have a finite beginning. Your theory is infinite cyclicity, which suggests that the universe grows from a zero size to a "maximum" and contracts back to the starting condition, which is entropy radiation, shrinking the size of each cycle. So, my original post stands. The theory is that, this entropy, causes it to shrink so much that objects become unbound. The problem is, it splits into non-interacting patches. The universe is full of this "phantom energy". Lambda-CDM model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is what we've observed so far, to this date. Initial contraction, another thing, does not explain the fine tuning, and still requires a creator.

    The scientist would reject your explanation of why there must be god. Your explanation does not meet the heightened scrutiny you yourself apply to every scientific theory. It is presumptive. I always disliked this part about Descartes' proof of God too... His proofs are always solid and then his proof for God was so weaksauce.
    Principle of sufficient reason render all arguments against it useless.

    I would just rather not try to explain things I don't know how to explain... Not with science, not with religion... But just accept it as mystery and as magic. I see it as things the human being cannot actually process because the information isn't even being downloaded. We cannot see, hear, etc many things. Our machines cannot pick up many things either. A flower looks different to us than to a bee who sees in UV spectrum. We might not understand why a bee mistakes the flower for a mate unless we chose to view it under uv as well. Thus for many many centuries we didn't "understand" the true magnificence of the flower. What if there are so many other perception mistakes we are making but we don't know that we don't know?

    Human beings are sdumb. I prefer to remain humble... rather than arrogant with either science or religion.
    This is agnosticism.
    Longing is the agony of the nearness of the distant

  9. #999
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    Quote Originally Posted by RittenRemedy View Post
    I fucking love this journal.

    Also, if you were to pirate "The Cure," what would happen then?
    This journal fucking loves you too :3

    You'd get a random record from The Cure
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  10. #1000
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    Quote Originally Posted by turquoisepassion View Post
    I actually think we were always thus limited... But I would would say maybe in the past our capacities were slightly greater.

    I believe what any animal, plant, or whatever perceives/can comprehend is extremely limited by that being's sensory download.
    If you fall over in a dark room you could assume God pushed you
    Longing is the agony of the nearness of the distant

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