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  1. #51
    oxide's Avatar
    oxide is offline Senior Member
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    I count "sugar burner" as an injured metabolism. "If only 100% works, in the beginning then why bother?" Because the hard work now will pay off later? Because if you're only 80%, then your body will still have enough sugar that it will stay a sugar burner. Your body won't be deprived of sugar enough to understand that it's supposed to shift to fat-burning beast. It's like climbing a staircase. You can't just step up half a stair half-assed; you need to step up the whole way. For newbies who are heavy sugar burners, I guess it's possible to ease into the 100%, but at some point they have to get those carbs and bad oils down, at least until they go through carb flu.

    That said, yeah, I guess a newbie could become a fat burner on diligent 80/20, or a relaxed 90/10, or whatever nuance. But it takes longer and it could get dicey. Look at all the threads on the forum started by newbies who say they went "primal" but they aren't losing weight. Only to find out: they are eating sugary greek yogurt. They are eating too much rice. They think 80/20 means two cheat pizzas a week. They are drinking too much dairy. They still like fat-free chicken breast. It never occurred to them that beer wasn't primal. They are eating too much chocolate. Their PUFA's are high from too many of the wrong nuts. And so on. In other words, they are eating a relaxed 80% too soon, and they are dancing too near to SAD end of the spectrum. The first thing I ask them is if they went through carb flu. If they haven't, that's a sure sign that their metabolism is simply not switching. That's why, with newbies, I err on the side of being strict.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  2. #52
    Derpamix's Avatar
    Derpamix is offline Senior Member
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    Sugar burner is an injured metabolism? Bahahaha get real, you're out of your mind.

    It takes a great deal of fighting and discomfort to become a "fat burner", it's unnatural, just let that soak in for a bit. Real healthy people don't have any issues with any macro-nutrient, there is no evolutionary proof or value of "fat burning". You didn't stumble upon an oasis of health, you just bit into another fad hook line and sinker.

    Mentality is key to health, there is no 80/20 or 100 rule to that. Health isn't over analyzing every aspect of what you do in order to make sure you stay a "fat burner".
    Longing is the agony of the nearness of the distant

  3. #53
    eKatherine's Avatar
    eKatherine is offline Senior Member
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    I disagree that we can say what the "failure rate" is from one or another strategy. There is no data.

    It would be possible to offer new members a survey and if they wish to, follow-up surveys. Without at least some data, we have no idea how many succeed or fail, or what the best strategies might be.

    But even with that data, what could it be compared to if other sites didn't do the same thing?

  4. #54
    little vase's Avatar
    little vase is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dradok View Post
    Hello,

    I would like to hear from you primal veterans regarding the 80/20 rule. Does this mean that you have 6 cheat days per month where you indulge in non primal foods? Or is it more of 80% of the food you eat daily is primal and 20% is not? Are there certain things that are off limits even within the 20% allowance? Have you made improvements using your version of the 80/20 rule?
    I don't do planned cheats or anything, and at home I stay primal. But sometimes I'm out and that smoothie might have pb2 instead of almond butter in it, or the sweet potato fries are fried in some weird oil. And I will eat them. That's my "cheats". So my cheats are having the same things that I have at home, but in an environment where I can't control all of the ingredients. I'm okay with that. I don't eat out that often anyway.

    You can make the rule mean whatever you like it to mean.

  5. #55
    goinggrok's Avatar
    goinggrok is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    I count "sugar burner" as an injured metabolism. "If only 100% works, in the beginning then why bother?" Because the hard work now will pay off later? Because if you're only 80%, then your body will still have enough sugar that it will stay a sugar burner. Your body won't be deprived of sugar enough to understand that it's supposed to shift to fat-burning beast. It's like climbing a staircase. You can't just step up half a stair half-assed; you need to step up the whole way. For newbies who are heavy sugar burners, I guess it's possible to ease into the 100%, but at some point they have to get those carbs and bad oils down, at least until they go through carb flu.

    That said, yeah, I guess a newbie could become a fat burner on diligent 80/20, or a relaxed 90/10, or whatever nuance. But it takes longer and it could get dicey. Look at all the threads on the forum started by newbies who say they went "primal" but they aren't losing weight. Only to find out: they are eating sugary greek yogurt. They are eating too much rice. They think 80/20 means two cheat pizzas a week. They are drinking too much dairy. They still like fat-free chicken breast. It never occurred to them that beer wasn't primal. They are eating too much chocolate. Their PUFA's are high from too many of the wrong nuts. And so on. In other words, they are eating a relaxed 80% too soon, and they are dancing too near to SAD end of the spectrum. The first thing I ask them is if they went through carb flu. If they haven't, that's a sure sign that their metabolism is simply not switching. That's why, with newbies, I err on the side of being strict.
    Quote A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES BEGINS WITH A SINGLE STEP

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