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  1. #41
    miata's Avatar
    miata is online now Senior Member
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    Add two shades of gray

    Primal Fuel
    I feel like I am pretty strict based on what I consider good -- with an obvious PHD bias. My breakdown is:

    1) Perfect = 80%: grass fed beef/lamb/clarified butter, wild salmon, veggies, free range eggs, kimchi, natto, bone broth, coconut oil/milk/cream, etc.
    2) Good in moderation = 15%: sweet/white potatoes, fruit, alcohol, dark chocolate, nuts, unpasteurized cheese, etc.
    3) Best to minimize = 5%: organic chicken, CAFO beef/pork, lentils, sugar, whole cream for coffee, cheese, etc.
    4) Poison = ~0%: Wheat (including beer) Soy/Corn oil, MSG, milk, milk chocolate, etc.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by goinggrok View Post
    The purpose of these forums is to get guidance and support. These kind of comments make me sad. Not everyone is a seasoned veteran, who knows it all or at least think they do. You contradict exactly what the PB book tells people 80/20. This is strictly your opinion. If these posts are getting old to you, don't reply its that simple.



    The spirit of this forum is to provide support and share information, these derogatory comments are not helpful nor necessary!
    Who died and appointed you admin?

    When that question was asked, did you tell the questioner the correct number of cheat meals to schedule each week? If not, why not?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    Who died and appointed you admin?

    When that question was asked, did you tell the questioner the correct number of cheat meals to schedule each week? If not, why not?
    Such negativity and hostility....so sad

    As for the question, nope didn't answer as...
    #1...I don't know the answer other than 80/20
    #2...Everyone perceives 80/20 differently, what might work and be correct for one, may not be what another needs. I believe this is a journey to find what works for our individuality.

    Just wanting to see positive feedback, people at least deserve that much.
    Last edited by goinggrok; 05-24-2013 at 08:02 PM. Reason: added text

  4. #44
    JoanieL's Avatar
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    People change different habits in their lives in different ways. I've seen people quit cigarettes cold turkey and I've seen them decrease to like four per day, then finally put them down forever.

    The 20% imo is because not everyone can afford to be 100%, not everyone needs to lose weight, and not everyone enters with a health problem. Some people just want to find a sustainable, healthy way to live. For those people, eating a burger on bread once a week isn't going to kill them. Pizza out with friends a couple of times a month isn't going to take years off their lives.

    If modern illness is a result of a bad diet, and I believe much of it is, it's the chronic eating of unhealthy, non-nutritious foods. It's waking up in the morning and eating a big bowl of cereal, munching throughout the day on 100-calorie snack packs, non-dairy coffee whitener (that is primarily HFCS and corn oil), daily sandwiches and pasta, the vilification of animal products, the eating of sick animals, etc. IOW it's a place of eating and eating and not getting even basic nutrients.

    Once you start eating healthfully raised animals and their by-products, organic plants, and some fermented products, you start to improve. Getting rid of the harder stuff - like folks who drink a six pack of soda per day whether sugar or aspartame, or eat cereal and/or bread on a daily basis, you'll get more healthy. Eventually, you just start find yourself wanting the "healthy" stuff more than the crap. Barring those who binge and those who have specific health issues, a few slices of bread per month or some pizza out with friends once in awhile, or even a few beers isn't going to kill you. It's the chronic, daily use of these products - calories with no nutrients or some damaging properties (bad oils and grains) that is making us ill. No one ever died from eating healthfully all day and following it with a small serving of even the worst ice cream.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
    ...The problem is that either approach (80/20 or 100%) has an extremely high failure rate. The bottom line is that no method, even most surgeries, have very good long term success rates. Most diets have 95%+ long term failure rates....

    For myself, I try to go 100%. When I fail, I just start up 100% again. Now, I do allow potatoes and rice, so 100% is probably a lot easier for me than others. If I slip and have pizza, then the next meal I start fresh. The end result is probably 90% adherence.
    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    "How many cheat meals should I plan a week?"
    OP, here's my thoughts (and I'm only using the above two posts as examples; I'm not directing anything at the members themselves.):

    The 80/20 rule is just a guideline to point me in the correct direction. One that entails changing my habits and lifestyle. If I think of it in terms of cheating, success or failure then my mindset hasn't changed. I'm still thinking in terms of "OMG, I'm on a diet!!!" instead of "I'm attempting to get, and remain, as healthy as I can."
    If I, on rare occasions, choose to eat or drink something that is not "not primal" then that is part of enjoying that moment of my life. I don't consider that 'cheating' or 'failing.'

  6. #46
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    The one thing about not being 100% is that you need to accept that your results may not be great.

    I think being online.... you have to consider the source of advice. A 40 year old woman trying to get to 15% body fat and not eating fruits or anything is a whole hell of a lot different than a 25 year old guy who can have a daily beer and is losing 5 lbs a week.

    I'm at a point where for me, weightloss is on the back burner. I've maybe lost a lb doing CF but my body is changing. I'm trying to get "tighter". So, I am a little more lax at times then I would be if I was trying to lose weight. For me, I enjoy eating and food and don't consider that something I want to change. I enjoy food so much that processed crap makes me sad, LOL. I went to an amazing restaurant last night and damned if I'm going to tell the chef to leave the polenta off the plate. But for me, dining out at a restaurant of that caliber is a two time a year treat. Hell no, I'm not eating toast or grits at Waffle House.

    I'm trying to shape a lifestyle I can sustain for the rest of my life. I can eat fully clean for about a month. If I work at it. I've lost about 40lbs and gone from a snug size 16 in Spanx to my 10's are getting big in the waist. So, for me, being fully clean hasn't been necessary to deliver results I'm happy with.

    I do think that when you start, you need to do it "right". If you are miserable and looking for the next cheat meal, you need to reassess the primal foods you are eating and find primal ones that make you happy to eat dinner. Unfortunately, if you look at the forums too much, you see a thousand variations on strictness and it can start to look like you need to eat 1 time a day, no fruit, only leafy greens and a day of potatoes only 1 day a month on the day after you heavy lift. It's really not that hard for most people.

    On the other hand you see shit like "I haven't lost a lb yet!!!! and have been doing this 2 weeks". OK, what do you eat? Well, I only have one piece of toast a day, with 2 egg whites, lunch is grilled chicken breast and a cookie, steak for dinner oh and weekends, I use my 20% and eat pizza and drink beer". Yeah... it's not that easy either.

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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    People change different habits in their lives in different ways. I've seen people quit cigarettes cold turkey and I've seen them decrease to like four per day, then finally put them down forever.

    The 20% imo is because not everyone can afford to be 100%, not everyone needs to lose weight, and not everyone enters with a health problem. Some people just want to find a sustainable, healthy way to live. For those people, eating a burger on bread once a week isn't going to kill them. Pizza out with friends a couple of times a month isn't going to take years off their lives.

    If modern illness is a result of a bad diet, and I believe much of it is, it's the chronic eating of unhealthy, non-nutritious foods. It's waking up in the morning and eating a big bowl of cereal, munching throughout the day on 100-calorie snack packs, non-dairy coffee whitener (that is primarily HFCS and corn oil), daily sandwiches and pasta, the vilification of animal products, the eating of sick animals, etc. IOW it's a place of eating and eating and not getting even basic nutrients.

    Once you start eating healthfully raised animals and their by-products, organic plants, and some fermented products, you start to improve. Getting rid of the harder stuff - like folks who drink a six pack of soda per day whether sugar or aspartame, or eat cereal and/or bread on a daily basis, you'll get more healthy. Eventually, you just start find yourself wanting the "healthy" stuff more than the crap. Barring those who binge and those who have specific health issues, a few slices of bread per month or some pizza out with friends once in awhile, or even a few beers isn't going to kill you. It's the chronic, daily use of these products - calories with no nutrients or some damaging properties (bad oils and grains) that is making us ill. No one ever died from eating healthfully all day and following it with a small serving of even the worst ice cream.
    JoanieL....I love how you break it down....its very true. We are human, we make mistakes, slip up, or completely fall off....but the truth is....get back up and try, try again...it does get easier.
    Thank you for this comment!

  8. #48
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    I'll just reiterate that newbies DO need to be 100% until they heal their metabolisms. After that , I guess you can relax into whatever 80/20 you want. As long as your blood numbers are decent and you're happy with your fat%, it's all good.

    I do not believe that this diet has a 95% failure rate. Other diets aren't really diets. They are just a "less food" version of the SAME diet. Given that modern wheat is basically a mild narcotic, you don't stay on less food for long. Primal/Paleo is a "different food" diet. Remove the addiction and suddenly you can get by on less food.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    I do not believe that this diet has a 95% failure rate. Other diets aren't really diets. They are just a "less food" version of the SAME diet.
    Agreed. If we accept the theory that overweight is a form of malnourishment then we shouldn't be surprised when aggravating the malnourishment fails to fix it.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by goinggrok View Post
    JoanieL....I love how you break it down....its very true. We are human, we make mistakes, slip up, or completely fall off....but the truth is....get back up and try, try again...it does get easier.
    Thank you for this comment!
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    I'll just reiterate that newbies DO need to be 100% until they heal their metabolisms. After that , I guess you can relax into whatever 80/20 you want.
    This assumes that everyone comes to primal with an injured metabolism. It also flies in the face of some very good advice which I usually forget the specific quote, but has to do with not letting perfection (or lack thereof) get in the way of the good. And it can scare off or discourage those who don't change habits by going cold turkey from making any changes because after all, if only 100% works, in the beginning then why bother? Mark doesn't advise "only 100% at the beginning or go home."

    I do agree that this isn't a diet if diet is defined as a temporary thing to lose weight. It is a diet if diet means, "my diet consists of..." and that relates to what I eat and will probably eat for the rest of my life. It's a lifestyle also, but avoiding poison, moving, getting sun, playing, etc., are really just common sense things, not magic.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

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