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  1. #11
    Jefferson1775's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owen View Post
    Have you compared the price of an organically produced paleo/primal diet, with that of a processed food + bog standard fresh produce diet? In my experience they tend to work out about the same because although organic is more expensive, you save by not buying any processed stuff, and because you don't need to eat as much.
    I ate the Standard American Diet for many years. It is much cheaper than eating paleo. Saving money in the short term has never been a selling point for living the primal lifestyle. It does have the benefit of long term health, however.

    We live in different countries, so government programs are different. Here, the prices of wheat, corn, and soy products are artificially low, so people have an incentive to buy them over healthier options. Even when processed foods are more expensive, this reflects that they require less time to prepare. Poor people are often short on money and time, unfortunately.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by picklepete View Post
    My favorite explanation is centralized manufacture and transporting water mass.

    Sounds weird?
    The H2O fractions of soybean oil, corn syrup, and wheat flour range from 0~10%
    The H2O fractions of whole foods range from 60~95% (much like all flora and fauna in nature)

    The people who make, ship, and sell the former can invade virtually every environment--the corner store, drive thru, school cafeteria, office party, cinemas, stadiums, etc.

    The people who make, ship, and sell the latter have all sorts of added logistical challenges. They become less visible, less familiar, and ironically more readily scrutinized. People feel comfortable criticizing a homemade omelet as a high-cholesterol illicit thrill because they don't do any cooking at home anyway, but they don't bat an eye at a frozen Lean Pocket because the logo is familiar.
    It's not just water mass. I think you're trying too hard. For one, There are other logistical challenges. Fresh food will perish quickly. For two, there's the whole pleasure element that people base their decisions off of. A banana doesn't look as appetizing as a banana candy for the average kid.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owen View Post
    Have you compared the price of an organically produced paleo/primal diet, with that of a processed food + bog standard fresh produce diet? In my experience they tend to work out about the same because although organic is more expensive, you save by not buying any processed stuff, and because you don't need to eat as much.
    And when you take medical costs into account, taking care of yourself by eating healthier is far cheaper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefferson1775 View Post
    I ate the Standard American Diet for many years. It is much cheaper than eating paleo. Saving money in the short term has never been a selling point for living the primal lifestyle. It does have the benefit of long term health, however.

    We live in different countries, so government programs are different. Here, the prices of wheat, corn, and soy products are artificially low, so people have an incentive to buy them over healthier options. Even when processed foods are more expensive, this reflects that they require less time to prepare. Poor people are often short on money and time, unfortunately.
    Yes I get the impression that convenience foods are on the whole cheaper in the US than in the UK (though they are getting cheaper here also) and maybe there is an even higher mark-up on organic stuff in the US?

    When I went primal with diet I found that I had more money because I no longer bought convenience snacks and all the peripheral stuff that I used to eat, and also because I cook things like stews where I can do a job lot and live off it over a few days. I've also begun foraging wild food (greens that grow wild) which has been a further improvement to my diet, more money saving, not to mention highly nutritious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amalgam54 View Post
    Why has eating healthy become such a monumental challenge amongst western societies?
    Easy.

    People eat what's there.

    What else would they eat? They would have to entirely dislodge themselves from their surrounding society to overcome the situation (which many of us here have actually done).

    In non-Western societies where the food environment is not crap, people don't have this problem.

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    I already knew how to live on the smell of an oily rag before going primal. So cutting out wheat was hugely expensive for us money wise. ALL the cheap filler food is carbohydrate.

    Going primal took our family of 5 food bill from $100/wk to $250/wk.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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    My personal theory (ignoring the root causes of such a weird food supply) is that we've (in the U.S.) created a culture based on doing things that involve eating and drinking processed "foods". Think about the last time you went out with friends. In my case, we had beer and hors d'ouevres/appetizers that were all processed junk fried in canola oil. Almost 2 years into my Primal conversion, I find all that stuff off-putting, so I nursed a beer for a couple hours and ate the lettuce off my "taco" appetizers.

    It's very heartening, however, to see the popularity of the local farmers' markets and to see the number of stories on local farms and ranches that are put on by our local news (TV and print). Outside Magazine has an article this month on the Paleo lifestyle, too. I hope that a groundswell of popular support will make paleo/primal more mainstream and, because businesses large and small follow the money, it will become easier to find healthy options, making it easier for more people to get there.

    Ever the optimist, that's me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Owen View Post
    Yes I get the impression that convenience foods are on the whole cheaper in the US than in the UK (though they are getting cheaper here also) and maybe there is an even higher mark-up on organic stuff in the US?
    I wouldn't say that organic food is marked up here, but stuff like bread, soda, chips, frozen pizzas, etc, is way too cheap. Government subsidies have made the economic incentives for food all out of whack.
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    Since I never had major medical issues before eating this way, and I can't see into the future, I can't really factor that into "cost benefits" of eating better quality food.

    As to the first question, IMO it's because we are a culture of money grubbers, and because we no longer distinguish between ambition and greed. The guy with the biggest bank account wins, no matter how he got it. Our current politicians, the ones who should be overseeing greed and corruption, make Nixon look like a saint.

    Our fourth estate, since converting from public service to profit center, is totally useless, so we can also thank them for garbage information in the last 30+ years.

    Put both of those together, and you get a systematic cycle of disinformation to the consumer and rampant selling of s*** called food. The media reports that low fat is good. The govt lets research done by the companies who profit by the results stand as real research. We, the taxpayers pay for farm subsidies. BigPharm pays the bill to get politicians who further their agenda elected. Result: a society that is clueless as to what really is healthy buying by price rather than health. Like rodents on a wheel, we're a culture eating bad food, then spending money on gyms, exercise equipment, supplements, and prescriptions to feel better.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

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    Because it's not all about the diet only, you have to have a holistic approach:
    - sleep
    - diet
    - physical activity
    - social activities including play-time
    - stressors
    - amount of time outdoor moving around at slow pace
    - routine in all these things
    - etc

    Focus solely on body weight (aka extra fat) is wrong to my mind. You also have "mind or mental weight", mood health, pleasure in sharing activities with others, moving around without stressing (like dancing, etc), and other things like story-telling, singing, etc. In many ancestral or traditional societies, story-telling, singing in groups, etc, play an important role and may have some subtle effect on health after the evening meal (more often single meal) around the main camp fire or what-not.

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