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Thread: Trying to eat 3 meals a day, but breakfast sets up a binge page 3

  1. #21
    YogaBare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VacillateWildly View Post
    I'm craving dairy, hence all the smoothies, I'd had one to two a day for the last 10 days. I've started eating fruit too, I only buy seasonal stuff, so there are always at the moment pears and persimmons and frozen berries. I find fruit quite unappealing in winter but these ones I do like. When I binge I either pick at primal food in the fridge and then overeat my evening meal (at which point I'm not hungry, but eat anyway as an act of self-sabotage. Or I hit the Fuck It switch and eat whole packets of highly processed choc chip cookies and oat bars. I eat liver at least once a week, but I'm not sure I could eat pate like cake, my ED head would be screaming at me.
    I'm not an expert, but if you're binging on chocolate chip cookies then my guess is that you've got a nutritional need which isn't being met. As soon as I went into active recovery and started eating as much as I wanted of nutritious food, the desire to binge on junk vanished. But I did overeat quite a bit during my recovery, and I know you want to avoid that.

    I do have a few suggestions:

    - A different kind of breakfast. Eggs don't do anything for me if I eat them everyday. If I have them I usually eat a banana (or two) at the same time and it helps to balance the macros. Another poster suggested having leftovers - this worked quite well for me. And I still think it's worth having liver for breakfast.

    - Have you tried Primmeal? It's warm and comforting - just like porridge! http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread81549.html

    - I also recommend the banana and egg pancakes: they taste great and you feel like you're treating yourself. Plus they can be really filling. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread78722.html

    - About Dairy. I know there is endless debate about dairy, and after my experiences I'm a bit iffy about it. I think it can have a weirdly addictive quality for some people - it did for me, and I read about other people who had this. Apparently dairy targets the opiate receptors in the brain (so do nuts). So maybe you're craving it for that kick. Could you have coconut milk instead? I ate a ton of coconut milk to get me off the greek yogurt, and I feel better for it. THe dairy wasn't satiating me.

    - I think Omni makes some great points in his above post. I gradually cycled into eating six meals a day for that period, and it was definitely the turning point for me. It was less of a stressor on my system, and it helped with a lot of my neurosis around eating.

    - I also agree about the smoothies: could you try fruit with coconut milk instead? You could add nutmeg or cinnamon for flavour. One one thing I enjoy, is coconut milk, banana and salt! WEird but good.

    - Finally, I wonder if eating such a big breakfast is psychologically setting you up for a fall? I know some people here eat 6+ eggs, but personally I think more than four is quite a lot. I usually eat 2-3, and as you know I don't restrict at all. More than that makes me feel funny and bloated. I wonder about the hormonal impact of eating eggs as well....
    Anyway, you said you're eating it cos you're trying to recover: maybe the conscious effort is resulting in you ignoring your body's signals, and eating more than you want? That could be stressing your body (and hence your mind) which interprets the unwanted food as a binge? Just a theory...

    Try the Primmeal - it would be a more reasonable portion size and that might help you. You also wouldn't have to cook it, which would help reduce stress a bit
    Last edited by YogaBare; 05-18-2013 at 02:22 AM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  2. #22
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    i think you need to read more about what mark says about cravings. This has helped me the most out of all I've learned. I've listed those blog posts that really helped me understand the problems my body was having. I really would emphasise reading stuff on the blog. Using marks advice i rarely listen to a carb craving unless its for a veg, im very careful with a a sugar craving including fruit( i check my blood sugar for visual reinforcement even though i know signs of a hypo arent craving sugars!) and if its a junk food craving i just eat a primal similar. I eat my fruit and never juice it; Mark is right about the difference in sugar spikes-juice is extreme and disturbs my blood sugar for hours
    8 Reasons Why You Make Bad Food Choices | Mark's Daily Apple
    When Listening to Your Body Doesn't Work | Mark's Daily Apple
    Common Stumbling Blocks on New Diet | Mark's Daily Apple
    How to Dog Whisper Your Food Cravings | Mark's Daily Apple
    Dear Mark: Sugar Cravings | Mark's Daily Apple
    The Low Down on Hunger: Health, Hankerings and Habits | Mark's Daily Apple
    What Does it Mean to Be Fat-Adapted? | Mark's Daily Apple
    5 Tips to Avoid Temptation | Mark's Daily Apple
    use the search facility on the blog, There is something useful about every issue. search for you weak spots (and your strengths so you can maximise them.
    I keep in mind now if the tummy inst rumbling i'm not actually hungry i just want to eat. Then I ask myself is there a good reason I should eat and sometimes there are and sometimes there aren't.....

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    Personally I would stay away from smoothies, they go down too easy and don't fill you up physically, better to do the real thing and chew food and chew it well, spend time savouring the flavours.

    There is another factor likely at play too and that is when people generally switch to Primal, you drop quite a bit of "quick fix sugar" from processed foods, so there is likely a blood sugar/insulin adjustment that takes place in the first month or two, most people find there is a greater urge for craving at this time, for that I found nuts & seeds are good, they provide some slow release carbs which help minimise insulin spiking while your body adjusts.

    So IMO for a good month you just need to let go and trust, eat as you need to, don't fight it, even the idea of enforcing a three meal regimen at this point will be counter productive, and as the ladies said on the "Women who eat a ton" thread, so what if you gain a bit of weight, if you don't feel better you can always go back to the Yo-yo dieting you know so well, but I dare say that won't be the case, more likely you'll realise that there is only a few lb's/kg's difference between constant craving and comfortable satiety, but you do have to take a leap of faith and trust your body.
    Thanks for your thoughts Omni. The thing with the smoothies is that I'm trying to listen to my body, and this is what it says I need. I actually like the drinking of the food rather than eating it, it feels safer and more nourishing and nurturing than snacking on seeds and nuts. Nuts are actually a binge food trigger so I try to avoid them. Also, I've never been a yo-yo dieter but have always struggled with giving my body the things it needs and have maintained a low body weight now for well over 2 years. I have had episodes of being underweight before, but never this sustained. I've been primal for 18 months, so my body is fat adapted that is for certain. I only have processed food on a crazed binge, perhaps every 2 or 3 weeks, sometimes much less often.

    I know in my heart that you and YB are right. I am not going to explode into a blimp from giving myself the calories I need. I am not a fat person, I never have been a fat person, nobody in my family is a fat person. But I do need to trust, and it feels like a terrifying leap of faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post

    I do have a few suggestions:

    - A different kind of breakfast. Eggs don't do anything for me if I eat them everyday. If I have them I usually eat a banana (or two) at the same time and it helps to balance the macros. Another poster suggested having leftovers - this worked quite well for me. And I still think it's worth having liver for breakfast.

    - Have you tried Primmeal? It's warm and comforting - just like porridge! http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread81549.html

    - I also recommend the banana and egg pancakes: they taste great and you feel like you're treating yourself. Plus they can be really filling. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread78722.html

    - About Dairy. I know there is endless debate about dairy, and after my experiences I'm a bit iffy about it. I think it can have a weirdly addictive quality for some people - it did for me, and I read about other people who had this. Apparently dairy targets the opiate receptors in the brain (so do nuts). So maybe you're craving it for that kick. Could you have coconut milk instead? I ate a ton of coconut milk to get me off the greek yogurt, and I feel better for it. THe dairy wasn't satiating me.

    - I also agree about the smoothies: could you try fruit with coconut milk instead? You could add nutmeg or cinnamon for flavour. One one thing I enjoy, is coconut milk, banana and salt! WEird but good.

    - Finally, I wonder if eating such a big breakfast is psychologically setting you up for a fall? I know some people here eat 6+ eggs, but personally I think more than four is quite a lot. I usually eat 2-3, and as you know I don't restrict at all. More than that makes me feel funny and bloated. I wonder about the hormonal impact of eating eggs as well....
    Anyway, you said you're eating it cos you're trying to recover: maybe the conscious effort is resulting in you ignoring your body's signals, and eating more than you want? That could be stressing your body (and hence your mind) which interprets the unwanted food as a binge? Just a theory...
    Thanks YB. The primeal is scheduled in for tomorrow

    The smoothies are a surprise to me, I hate milk, but this is what my body wants. They are causing digestive problems though and as I hardly consume any dairy except a splash of milk in my tea, this is a bit of a shock to my body! Coconut milk doesn't have the same appeal. For now, I'm going to continue with the smoothies, it's the best listening I can do for now. I think it's the sugar I'm after, and the fat from the milk and yoghurt. I like the cold, the texture, they are heavenly and I'm enjoying them and this is a good thing.

    I think your theory about mind/body and fullness of spot on. This is what makes it so difficult, this is really muddy waters to negotiate as it involves so much more than simply nutrition, as you know.

    Today it is 11.40am and I have had 3 breakfasts. Large breakfasts. (I have been up since 4.15am if that makes any difference) Now my head is racing at the thought of restricting the rest of the day. Mind body struggle, I feel like a push-me pull-me.

    Eggs are my favourite food in the whole world. I crave them and eat them every day at some point. What makes you say that about hormones? We have farm pasture fed eggs from the farmer, all different sized with poo and feathers on the shells, love them. I tried just 2 eggs - starving. 3 eggs - starving. 4 eggs - fucking starving. 5 -eggs still starving. I increased the breakfast size to try and cancel out the ensuing hunger. I'm still not sure how much I would need to be full. 2 or 3 eggs seems like a waste of time, I'd rather go without. (Do you spot an addictive all or nothing mentality going on here?)

    Quote Originally Posted by CarbDodger View Post
    i think you need to read more about what mark says about cravings. This has helped me the most out of all I've learned. I've listed those blog posts that really helped me understand the problems my body was having. I really would emphasise reading stuff on the blog. Using marks advice i rarely listen to a carb craving unless its for a veg, im very careful with a a sugar craving including fruit( i check my blood sugar for visual reinforcement even though i know signs of a hypo arent craving sugars!) and if its a junk food craving i just eat a primal similar. I eat my fruit and never juice it; Mark is right about the difference in sugar spikes-juice is extreme and disturbs my blood sugar for hours
    8 Reasons Why You Make Bad Food Choices | Mark's Daily Apple
    When Listening to Your Body Doesn't Work | Mark's Daily Apple
    Common Stumbling Blocks on New Diet | Mark's Daily Apple
    How to Dog Whisper Your Food Cravings | Mark's Daily Apple
    Dear Mark: Sugar Cravings | Mark's Daily Apple
    The Low Down on Hunger: Health, Hankerings and Habits | Mark's Daily Apple
    What Does it Mean to Be Fat-Adapted? | Mark's Daily Apple
    5 Tips to Avoid Temptation | Mark's Daily Apple
    use the search facility on the blog, There is something useful about every issue. search for you weak spots (and your strengths so you can maximise them.
    I keep in mind now if the tummy inst rumbling i'm not actually hungry i just want to eat. Then I ask myself is there a good reason I should eat and sometimes there are and sometimes there aren't.....
    Thank you Carbdodger for finding those links. The thing is with restricting though that there is more danger in fighting the cravings as it keeps me in the mindset. I often don't know if I'm hungry or not. My signals with my body are so wrecked that I don't even know if I'm ill or not sometimes and have to wait till the symptoms are all pervasive before I even recognize that I'm unwell. I don't crave junk food, but biscuits are a weakness, I like the crunch. When I'm feeling stable and ok with food I would never have them, they seem to be a self-sabotage food, I don't even know if there's a craving involved with them, more just a though and a way to hurt myself.

  4. #24
    VacillateWildly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardCook View Post
    What about your weight is it drastically increasing due this food fobia or no problem with weight at all?If there is no issue with weight then no need to bother about your heavy diet habbit.Do Yoga or regular excersice for maintaining the weight.
    Ummm....I have no food phobias at all. I have a restrictive eating disorder called anorexia, it's a mental illness based around food. I'm not scared of food, but I do have an unhealthy relationship with it. I would love to not bother with my heavy diet habit, thanks for the advice. And although you didn't ask, I already do plenty of regular exercise.

  5. #25
    YogaBare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VacillateWildly View Post
    I know in my heart that you and YB are right. I am not going to explode into a blimp from giving myself the calories I need. I am not a fat person, I never have been a fat person, nobody in my family is a fat person. But I do need to trust, and it feels like a terrifying leap of faith.

    Thanks YB. The primeal is scheduled in for tomorrow

    The smoothies are a surprise to me, I hate milk, but this is what my body wants. They are causing digestive problems though and as I hardly consume any dairy except a splash of milk in my tea, this is a bit of a shock to my body! Coconut milk doesn't have the same appeal. For now, I'm going to continue with the smoothies, it's the best listening I can do for now. I think it's the sugar I'm after, and the fat from the milk and yoghurt. I like the cold, the texture, they are heavenly and I'm enjoying them and this is a good thing.

    I think your theory about mind/body and fullness of spot on. This is what makes it so difficult, this is really muddy waters to negotiate as it involves so much more than simply nutrition, as you know.

    Today it is 11.40am and I have had 3 breakfasts. Large breakfasts. (I have been up since 4.15am if that makes any difference) Now my head is racing at the thought of restricting the rest of the day. Mind body struggle, I feel like a push-me pull-me.

    Eggs are my favourite food in the whole world. I crave them and eat them every day at some point. What makes you say that about hormones? We have farm pasture fed eggs from the farmer, all different sized with poo and feathers on the shells, love them. I tried just 2 eggs - starving. 3 eggs - starving. 4 eggs - fucking starving. 5 -eggs still starving. I increased the breakfast size to try and cancel out the ensuing hunger. I'm still not sure how much I would need to be full. 2 or 3 eggs seems like a waste of time, I'd rather go without. (Do you spot an addictive all or nothing mentality going on here?)
    I'm glad the theory resonates Looking forward to seeing how you like the Primmeal!

    Maybe I wasn't clear about the eggs. I love eggs, but I don't find them filling. They hit a spot, but they never give me a "full" feeling: unless I have cheese, or veggies with them. If you really want to eat eggs, maybe try an omelette? So no, I don't think this is an all-or-nothing mentality: it's normal to want to be satiated and filled by the food you eat! Forget what I said about hormones: it's a theory I'm working on

    It's good that you're listening to your body, and if you love the smoothies then go with it. I do think it's worth trying the coconut milk one day, whenever you're ready. I didn't think it would, but it hit the exact same spot for me as dairy. But overall, just eat what you like.

    Re. crunch: one food that helped me a lot was raw carrots! If I got impatient for dinner while I was cooking I'd start chowing down on them. They take a while to eat and have bite, so they are fulfilling to eat. I used to go for apples, but carrots did a much better job and quelling that anxiety that made me search for the crunch.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

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