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  1. #31
    eKatherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Any examples on such a B.S. strength protocol Rich? Could have been funny to see whether it's possible to make gains even on a completley retarded protocol...
    Here's what I recall about the study: they took older women and had them work out with little dumbbells for a couple of months. So it was marginal.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Any examples on such a B.S. strength protocol Rich? Could have been funny to see whether it's possible to make gains even on a completley retarded protocol...
    Taylor LW, Wilborn CD, Kreider RB, Willoughby DS. Effects of resistance exercise intensity on extracellular signalregulated
    kinase 1/2 mitogen-activated protein kinase activation in men. JSCR 2012:26(3); 599-607.

    Here's what Dr. Jonathon Sullivan had to say about the above in his review of the State of Exercise Science in 2012:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sullivan
    "IIB(2). Studies of MAPK, AMPK-Akt and mTOR signaling. The MAP kinase (MAPK) cascade
    has emerged as an important signaling pathway for cell function in general and for skeletal muscle
    hypertrophy in particular. This signal cascade is responsive to exercise stress and growth factor
    stimulation. Activation of the growth factor receptor by growth factor binding and phosphorylation
    triggers subsequent phosphorylation-activation events on MEKK, MAPK, and ERK, leading finally
    to the activation of transcriptional regulators like Elk, Fos and Jun, which mediate gene expression.
    Taylor et al29 sought to investigate whether differences in exercise intensity would differentially activate
    this signaling cascade, using a standard bro-bike-biopsy & blood model. Bros did leg extensions at 60%
    1RM (20x4) or 85% 1RM (10x4) followed by blood draws and biopsies. The results demonstrated a
    strong trend toward increased serum IGF-1 after both forms of exercise, greatest for the high intensity
    work. The authors dismiss this finding because it is not statistically significant, even though they provide
    no documentation that their study was powered to detect a significant difference, and even though
    The Year in Strength Science 2012
    2013 The Aasgaard Company 16 StartingStrength.com
    they detected a significant increase in IGF-1 receptor activation. Moreover, even though biopsies were
    taken and used for MEKK-ERK-Elk measurements, no effort was made to assay intramuscular IGF-
    1 levels to account for autocrine/paracrine elaboration of this growth factor. Both forms of exercise
    resulted in profound but similar increases in MEKK, ERK, and Elk phosphorylation. The authors
    claim their findings demonstrate that this signaling system is activated by resistance training in an
    intensity-independent manner.
    They demonstrate nothing of the sort. The failure to normalize intensity-volume products
    between the groups, the use of uncontrolled ELISA assays for phosphorylated proteins without
    assessment of total protein levels (an important control), the lack of a power analysis, potential
    problems with biopsy methodology, and the complete lack of any exploration of downstream effects
    make such conclusions untenable. This paper is an additional data point in favor of MAPK-ERK
    cascade signaling in response to resistance training, but its value should not be overstated."

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    Here's what I recall about the study: they took older women and had them work out with little dumbbells for a couple of months. So it was marginal.
    Seem a bit unspecified, but I am almost sure that older untrained woman that train to failure on a few sets, 2 days a week with light pink colored dumbbells, will get strength gains, even if it's not the best strength training protocol perhaps...

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Taylor LW, Wilborn CD, Kreider RB, Willoughby DS. Effects of resistance exercise intensity on extracellular signalregulated
    kinase 1/2 mitogen-activated protein kinase activation in men. JSCR 2012:26(3); 599-607.

    Here's what Dr. Jonathon Sullivan had to say about the above in his review of the State of Exercise Science in 2012:
    Seem to be more of B.S. science and possible wrong conlucions, than a B.S strength protocol...

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Seem to be more of B.S. science and possible wrong conlucions, than a B.S strength protocol...
    You don't have any problem with the use of leg extensions and claiming to apply the results to a strength training protocol in general? I do.

    I know there was another study published last year where they used some type of machine-based exercise and came to the "conclusion" that weight-bearing activity (of which none was actually performed) didn't have positive effects on bone density. Headdesk. I think Sully references it in that same article, if you want to take the time to read the whole thing (Which I did once. It was heavy lifting, but I think you'd come to the same conclusion about the current state of "exercise science." Or exercise "science").

  6. #36
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    Thanks sbhikes. That sounds a lot simpler than what I've been trying to do. Did you see improvement pretty quickly or was it slow?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    You don't have any problem with the use of leg extensions and claiming to apply the results to a strength training protocol in general? I do.
    A leg extension exercise taken to failure will build strength and muscle depending of the background of the individual. Maybe not the most optimal machine for an elite olympic lifter or a powerlifter, but it certainly has shown to build strength in the quadriceps...

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErinF View Post
    Thanks sbhikes. That sounds a lot simpler than what I've been trying to do. Did you see improvement pretty quickly or was it slow?
    At first it was pretty quick. I followed a program that had me add weight each week. I added 5lbs each week to lower body and 2.5lbs each week (using big washers I bought online) for upper body. A lot of the quick progress is just your body getting used to doing this kind of exercise, but still at some point I was used to it and building real strength and muscle.

    The progress has slowed a lot lately (I guess these beginner programs like Starting Strength only work for a few months anyway) and I've dropped back some of the weights and have switched to a slower program. I have built noticeable muscle though, especially in my back, shoulders and upper arms. Not something anybody on the street would see, but my boyfriend notices. The best part is I feel really peppy and healthy now.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 170 x 3. Current Deadlift: 220 x 3

  9. #39
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    Awesome! That's what I'm hoping for.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    A leg extension exercise taken to failure will build strength and muscle depending of the background of the individual. Maybe not the most optimal machine for an elite olympic lifter or a powerlifter, but it certainly has shown to build strength in the quadriceps...
    Do you think it has the same hormonal effects as squatting a 150-lb sandbag? I sure wouldn't apply a study done with leg extensions to heavy lifting protocols just like I wouldn't necessarily assume the same applicability of a protocol based on dancing around with neoprene 5-lb dumbbells.

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