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Thread: A Couple of Questions - Low Carb Flu and not eating enough? page

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    A Couple of Questions - Low Carb Flu and not eating enough?

    Primal Fuel
    I have two questions...
    I've read in studying detoxification that when you "detox" your body rids itself of all the "residues" from past illness, medication, diet, etc. It's like sediments in rock getting washed away, last in - first out. So if you were sick two years ago and took pain meds or antibiotics, when your body detoxes at that point, you'll feel as bad as you did when you went through that illness the first time.

    Ok, my question is...have y'all found this (or is there any clinical proof) to be true? I'm wondering because since we've been primal (and still eating some berries, and veggies - not TOTALLY all protein primal) we still have days when we feel drained, sluggish, achey, headache, stomach upset, etc. Is this part of the detox continuing? How long do we have to go through this?? We're on our second week of PB

    Second question - if I eat when I'm hungry and don't when I'm not, and I have some of the symptoms listed in question one, how do I know that my headache isn't from just not eating enough protein, or eating enough in general? I mean, obviously I'd eat and see if it goes away, but what if it doesn't? What does that mean?

    These may be dumb questions to y'all, but I still would like to know. Some days we feel absolutely great, and other days not so much. I don't know if we're getting sick or just still detoxing. How do YOU know when you've got the right balance of everything?

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    cillakat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aprilleigh1974 View Post
    So if you were sick two years ago and took pain meds or antibiotics, when your body detoxes at that point, you'll feel as bad as you did when you went through that illness the first time.
    Nonsense. I think it's pure and utter nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by aprilleigh1974 View Post
    Second question - if I eat when I'm hungry and don't when I'm not, and I have some of the symptoms listed in question one, how do I know that my headache isn't from just not eating enough protein, or eating enough in general?
    They're not. You'd be hungry. I would suspect your headaches are from something you're not eating - ie not enough magnesium or potassium etc Can you give a rundown of what you're eating?

    Quote Originally Posted by aprilleigh1974 View Post
    What does that mean?
    How much vitamin d are you taking? At what latitude do you live? How much unprotected midday sun exposure are you getting? Any other supplements?

    Quote Originally Posted by aprilleigh1974 View Post
    How do YOU know when you've got the right balance of everything?
    You can track it if you want....and many do exactly that via nutritiondata.com, fitday or some similar free online service.

    Best,
    Katherine
    Last edited by cillakat; 05-13-2010 at 01:01 PM.

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    Thanks, I will look at those links and see how I'm doing by tracking it.

    Vitamin D is NOT a problem for me, not in the spring and summer anyway...I live in Texas, and I get plenty of unprotected rays. Too much for my fair skin, actually. In the winter, it's a different story as I do tend to get the "blues" when I haven't been outside gardening like I am in spring/summer.

    I'm not real good with supplements yet, to be honest. I'm so anti-pill, that one's gonna take some serious getting used to for both me and my husband. But, yesterday when I started feeling run down again, what I'd had to eat was two eggs over medium, two pieces of turkey bacon (i know, the real thing is better, I agree, but we can't handle the grease yet) and coffee. Lunch was about an 8oz grilled salmon (made at home) with a grilled squash. I was full enough that I didn't eat my salad I brought with it. I'd drank some unsweet black tea and water. I just felt like poo when I got home.

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    I'm wondering because since we've been primal (and still eating some berries, and veggies - not TOTALLY all protein primal)
    I think you're possibly confusing PB eating habits with low-carb or carnivore. You should be eating TONS of veggies of all colors, along with some fruits (mostly berries) and nuts.

    Review Carb curve and PB Food Pyramid here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-t...mal-blueprint/
    Review Mark's carb pyramid here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/carb-pyramid/

    You absolutely will get run-down eating just meat, especially if it's lean cuts. The only way to go zero-carb is to eat 85% or more of your calories from fat and ensure proper nutrient balance by eating mostly organ meats or super fatty parts - not muscle meat.

    Lots and lots and lots of veggies. There is no such thing as too many veggies - it's practically impossible to eat too many carbs a day if your carbs are all from veggies with a little fruit.

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    Just a note... you can get plenty of sunshine and not necessarily be making enough Vitamin D. Sometimes a deficiency comes from lack of the element you need (such as sunshine) and sometimes it's your body not converting the element into the usable stuff. The only way to really know if your Vit d is at a good level is to test it. I live in San Diego and my vitamin D was super duper low.

    Also, primal doesn't mean all-protein. :-) If you read all of the articles by Mark and/or read his book... it's mostly veggie centered, with good quality meats and fats. You do want to make sure you're getting in the range of good proteins, not necessarily over (though some do and feel fine, others, especially women, tend not to do well when their protein goes tooooo high. Each person is different).

    What kind of diet did you have before you changed? If you gave up certain things, the withdrawal from those foods can cause symtpoms such as headache and blyeah feeling. If you do a search for low-carb flu on the forum you'll see a ton of posts and probably some better indications of symtpoms people were having.
    "Boy I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals" - Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

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    Quote Originally Posted by hbeck View Post
    I think you're possibly confusing PB eating habits with low-carb or carnivore. You should be eating TONS of veggies of all colors, along with some fruits (mostly berries) and nuts.

    Review Carb curve and PB Food Pyramid here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-t...mal-blueprint/
    Review Mark's carb pyramid here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/carb-pyramid/

    You absolutely will get run-down eating just meat, especially if it's lean cuts. The only way to go zero-carb is to eat 85% or more of your calories from fat and ensure proper nutrient balance by eating mostly organ meats or super fatty parts - not muscle meat.

    Lots and lots and lots of veggies. There is no such thing as too many veggies - it's practically impossible to eat too many carbs a day if your carbs are all from veggies with a little fruit.
    Well, just going from some other posts I've seen on here...we actually DO eat A LOT of veggies, and a ton more than we used to. And from the book, I thought that was right, but I've seen a lot of conflicting opinions on the forums. That's the only reason I said not completely primal. But yeah, we actually do eat a ton of veggies, berries, and nuts. I spend about $60 a week at the farmers market for just me and hubby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minxxa View Post
    Just a note... you can get plenty of sunshine and not necessarily be making enough Vitamin D. Sometimes a deficiency comes from lack of the element you need (such as sunshine) and sometimes it's your body not converting the element into the usable stuff. The only way to really know if your Vit d is at a good level is to test it. I live in San Diego and my vitamin D was super duper low.

    Also, primal doesn't mean all-protein. :-) If you read all of the articles by Mark and/or read his book... it's mostly veggie centered, with good quality meats and fats. You do want to make sure you're getting in the range of good proteins, not necessarily over (though some do and feel fine, others, especially women, tend not to do well when their protein goes tooooo high. Each person is different).

    What kind of diet did you have before you changed? If you gave up certain things, the withdrawal from those foods can cause symtpoms such as headache and blyeah feeling. If you do a search for low-carb flu on the forum you'll see a ton of posts and probably some better indications of symtpoms people were having.
    I did read it, that's why I get confused with that information and some of the opinions I see on the forums. But I'll just take the book for gospel and ignore the rest! And...LMAO...what kind of diet did I have before? Lots of mexican food, which is very basically (no matter what you order) CORN, cheese and a little bit of meat. Also hamburgers, chicken fried steak, biscuits, gravy, you know...the "works" for a southern "diet." Oh, and a chocolate candy bar every day around 3:00. (Could really be why I'm so BLAH...no more candy!)

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    Something useful for me when starting out to make sure I was "doing it right" was to use fitday (or a nutrition-tracking site of your preference) to get a reasonable estimate of the ratios of carbs/fat/protein for where my calories were coming from. Do that every meal for about 2 weeks at a minimum and you'll have a good sense of where you are and what you need to change, if anything.

    PB isn't really about calorie counting or measuring food as part of the lifestyle but it doesn't hurt to make sure you're on the right path. For me, once I did the input into fitday for 2 weeks, I had a very good sense of what to eat to get into the spot I wanted to be. At that point I stopped bothering with it and just eat along the same lines and listen to my body if it has a craving. Today's craving was broccoli. Lots and lots of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aprilleigh1974 View Post
    Well, just going from some other posts I've seen on here...we actually DO eat A LOT of veggies, and a ton more than we used to. And from the book, I thought that was right, but I've seen a lot of conflicting opinions on the forums. That's the only reason I said not completely primal. But yeah, we actually do eat a ton of veggies, berries, and nuts. I spend about $60 a week at the farmers market for just me and hubby.
    I didn't see any produce at breakfast and only squash at lunch. To get sufficient potassium from produce will require 10-15 servings non-starchy veggies per day. Literally, most of every meal is veggies.
    http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AV...drZnFmNw&hl=en
    Primal Blueprint and Produce
    Here's what The Primal Blueprint says about produce:

    p40 TPB
    "The gathering of berries and other fruit, leafy greens, primitive roots, shoots and other vegetation, nuts and seeds provide the bulk of Grok's food supply."

    p.112 TPB
    "'it may take some acclimation to center your diet around vegetables....Dont follow the example of restaurants that serve skimpy vegetable portions seemingly just for decoration; serve yourself heaping portions that crowd everything else on your plate"

    p.111
    "Plant foods..naturally promote a beneficial balance between acidity and alkalinity..inyour bloodstream. Almost all cells prefer a slightly alkaline environment to function properly, but many metabolic processes, including the normal production of cellular energy, result in the release of acidic waste products. The buildup of acidic waste is toxic to your body so it works very hard at all times to preserve a slightly alkaline environment, measured by the familiar pH levels."

    p110 TPB
    see food pyramid: the base is produce indicating that in terms of volume, this is a produce dominated
    diet. His food pyramid is a clear supportive visual to both his writing, and the evidence available
    regarding a primal diet (diet in our environment of evolutionary adaptation). Volume-wise, we're
    eating mostly produce, though in terms of a percentage of calories, we are getting more calories from
    protein and many more from saturated fat even when we don't add much, if any, free fat.

    In this blogpost regarding inflammation and gut health, Mark said:

    "I mentioned Dr. Art Ayer’s Cooling Inflammation blog last week, and I’m
    to do so again. First, Art suggests adopting an anti-inflammatory diet. His dietary
    recommendations are essentially identical to mine – high SFA, moderate animal
    protein, low O-6, O-3 supplementation, leafy greens, some fruit and nuts."


    ❑ 3,500 mg potassium (K) is the "Daily Value" (DV) intake per the FDA, NIH,
    ADA etc. Consdering that nutrient intakes from these organizations reflect
    standard intakes, not optimal, consider viewing potassium needs through a
    'primal' lens based on K intakes in traditional diets and what we know of diets
    in environment closer to those in which we adapted.

    ❑ Potassium intakes in the above 'primal' diets - likely ranges
    based on potassium to sodium ratio
    5mg K:1mg Na to 16mg K: 1mg Na

    based on potassium to calorie ratio
    2-4mg K per calorie ingested

    ❑ 10-13 servings produce will often be required to supply potassium at
    optimal or nearly optimal levels

    ❑ if needed to bring K:Na ratios or K:Kcal ratios into balance, tomato products
    at each meal or by drinking homemade veggie peeling broths are easy, low
    calorie, high potassium supplements. adding 99mg from a potassium tab
    is essentially worthless when total potassium needs are 3,500-12,000 mg.

    Think of magnesium and potassium as the relaxors and calcium and sodium as
    the contractors. We need both - but it's all about ratio just like it is wrt Ω3 and Ω6.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aprilleigh1974 View Post
    I did read it, that's why I get confused with that information and some of the opinions I see on the forums. But I'll just take the book for gospel and ignore the rest! And...LMAO...what kind of diet did I have before? Lots of mexican food, which is very basically (no matter what you order) CORN, cheese and a little bit of meat. Also hamburgers, chicken fried steak, biscuits, gravy, you know...the "works" for a southern "diet." Oh, and a chocolate candy bar every day around 3:00. (Could really be why I'm so BLAH...no more candy!)
    I totally understand! Go with the book, and then tweak what works for you. The forums are awesomeness for getting opinions and asking questions, but everybody has kind of found their own path (or is looking), so start with the basics from the book and then you can adjust to what works/doesn't work for you!

    I don't know about you, but I do get sugar withdrawals. When I go without I'm fine, but if I have some it hits again. And there are sugars in dairy and fruit as well... so i think it depends on your particular system and how it deals with it. For me, avoiding fruit and most dairy most of the time is what works. But some people do it differently. Again, all personal!

    But changing from that much grain and sugars I'm thinking your body is just used to fueling off of carbs. It takes a bit to get to fueling from fat. Maybe up the veggies and lose the fruit for a week or two to see if that helps. I wish I could give better advice, but honestly it really is trial and error as what works for others may/may not work for you!

    :-)

    Also, take it easy on yourself during this time. Don't stress too much, and it's probably best to lay off any exercise (cept maybe slow easy walking) until it passes. After all, this whole thing is about taking care of you!
    "Boy I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals" - Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

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