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  1. #51
    Gorbag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    hell yeah gorbag.

    ecuadorian ferry fighting would probably be an internet sensation
    It happened in Fredrikshavn in Denmark, of all places, the guys tried to mug me after a judo competiton, and it's the only real self-defence situation I have ever been involved in, and now I am fifthy years of age...

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Remember before "Mixed Martial Arts" was its own thing and Rorion Gracie decided to organize a no-rules tournament for practitioners of all different martial arts styles to determine which one was the best?

    It was called Ultimate Fighting Championship and a 6'1, 180 lb skinny Brazilian kid won the damn thing. Well, I was recently at a seminar with Royce Gracie himself, and he left us with one open question. The question was: If Jiu Jitsu doesn't have the answer, what does?

    Meaning if you're attacked by someone so much bigger and stronger and more talented than you to the point that Jiu Jitsu doesn't save you, please explain what can. Boxing? Really? Kickboxing? Wrestling? Seriously. I know this point has been beaten to death all over the internet, but there's only a few martial arts that even train against full resistance (boxing, a few forms of kickboxing, judo, wrestling, and jiu-jitsu) and only one of those really gives a smaller guy a really good chance to survive an attack from a bigger, stronger opponent.

    In modern times, it has its shortcomings (let's not get into the whole Brazilian Jiu Jitsu vs. Gracie Jiu Jitsu and sport-specific techniques arguments here, or how the rules change when the referee stands everyone up after 30 seconds on the ground/5 minute rounds, etc), but I have to ask you the same question Royce offered us the other weekend. Really. If not Jiu Jitsu, then what?
    Martial arts are created to kill or maim as quickly as possible. The best shots are going to be illegal in any competition. The best sport martial art is going to be the one which best uses the rules to its advantage. In a real life conflict, the situation is much different.

    The last thing you want to do is get on the ground in a street fight.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natureman View Post
    I have researched Krav Maga and it looks pretty street effective. More realistic than katas and letting people stand there while one kicks them. I personally practice Aikido but I am not sure how effective it would be with a wild attack. I want to start Karv Maga as well. Street related arts. Nothing with a philosophy to it.
    There are simple martial arts taught to infantry to get them ready for battle quickly. This could go for Krav Maga, the US Marine fighting system, the old LINE system if you're familiar with that, and many others. They are solid, but they are mostly going to be effective only in a limited number of situations. This could include an equal or smaller opponent, only one or two attackers, only on certain surfaces, only if the opponent doesn't know the counter, etc.

    Then, there is the more complex art form of these fighting styles. Shou Shu was originally the fighting style of the elite guards for the Mandarin emperor. It would be akin to a Navy SEAL today, or maybe a tier 1 group like Delta or SEAL Team 6. These guys spend their lives training to be these warriors, so they have the time to develop more advanced skills.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 05-28-2013 at 01:25 AM.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Martial arts are created to kill or maim as quickly as possible. The best shots are going to be illegal in any competition. The best sport martial art is going to be the one which best uses the rules to its advantage. In a real life conflict, the situation is much different.
    Yeah, right. And they're not dolls, they're action figures. And all the cool kids hang out at the comic book store. Yup, I gotcha. We'll resume this discussion as rational adults when you're done with this ridiculous ninjer fantasy stuff. Dudes who carry shurikens never get laid. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    The last thing you want to do is get on the ground in a street fight.
    Would you rather get picked up and put in the trunk of an attacker's car, or sit down and put your feet between you and him where they can protect you from being struck and use them to knock the guy over? Nobody wants to go to the ground in a self-defense situation. Do I need to say that another dozen times?

    Ignoring reality (that you might be put there against your will or have no better options than to put one or more of your own body parts on the ground to protect yourself) doesn't make it cease to be reality. In other words, if each of us gets knocked down by surprise by an attacker, who has the better chance of getting back up? I know where I'd put my money.

    Keep standing in front of the mirror with your hands at your sides doing your fancy triple spinning lethal death pokes to an imaginary friend's imaginary trachea, bro. I'll be the one actually practicing by fighting against real opponents who are actually fighting back.

  5. #55
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Yeah, right. And they're not dolls, they're action figures. And all the cool kids hang out at the comic book store. Yup, I gotcha. We'll resume this discussion as rational adults when you're done with this ridiculous ninjer fantasy stuff. Dudes who carry shurikens never get laid. Fact.



    Would you rather get picked up and put in the trunk of an attacker's car, or sit down and put your feet between you and him where they can protect you from being struck and use them to knock the guy over? Nobody wants to go to the ground in a self-defense situation. Do I need to say that another dozen times?

    Ignoring reality (that you might be put there against your will or have no better options than to put one or more of your own body parts on the ground to protect yourself) doesn't make it cease to be reality. In other words, if each of us gets knocked down by surprise by an attacker, who has the better chance of getting back up? I know where I'd put my money.

    Keep standing in front of the mirror with your hands at your sides doing your fancy triple spinning lethal death pokes to an imaginary friend's imaginary trachea, bro. I'll be the one actually practicing by fighting against real opponents who are actually fighting back.
    Then you will be learning a weaker technique than I. Martial arts does not require tons of sparring to learn. That's an artifact of Western culture infused into martial arts philosophy.

    Also, fights go to the ground because the fighters don't know how to fight. A quality fighter should end a fight within 3-5 seconds unless he's matched up against another quality fighter, and he didn't get the element of surprise (which is huge).

    I'm also not totally ignoring the possibility of being on the ground like you think I am. However, as soon as I get on the ground, my goal is to get back up rather than do some elaborate MMA submission.

    Are you familiar with what actual fighting becomes when it's not bound by rules? Eye gouging, nut punches, throat chops, makeshift weapon stabbing. The last thing you want to do is to willingly let another on your body who has close access to all these options. If you're going to be fighting in close, at least be in your feet where you can control the escape if you need to.

    Also- LOL at your shuriken reference. If you're learning martial arts to get laid or be cool, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 05-28-2013 at 02:11 PM.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Martial arts does not require tons of sparring to learn. That's an artifact of Western culture infused into martial arts philosophy.
    So complex physical training does not have to be practiced much for it to be effective? Hmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Also, fights go to the ground because the fighters don't know how to fight. A quality fighter should end a fight within 3-5 seconds unless he's matched up against another quality fighter, and he didn't get the element of surprise (which is huge).
    How do you end the fight in 3-5 seconds? Did Pai Mei teach you The Five Point Palm Exploding Heart technique?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    So complex physical training does not have to be practiced much for it to be effective? Hmm...



    How do you end the fight in 3-5 seconds? Did Pai Mei teach you The Five Point Palm Exploding Heart technique?
    I never said it doesn't have to be practiced. I'm just saying full speed, full contact all the time is not necessary to learn the art.

    You end fights quickly by throwing lots of very hard shots to weak parts of their body in a short amount of time.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    I never said it doesn't have to be practiced. I'm just saying full speed, full contact all the time is not necessary to learn the art.
    You said it doesn't require tons of sparring to learn. How much is enough for it to be effective?

    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    You end fights quickly by throwing lots of very hard shots to weak parts of their body in a short amount of time.
    Right. So you will be able to disable an opponent with a masterful attack of "very hard shots", which you learned how to execute without a ton of sparring. Do you get bonus points for a 9-hit combo?

  9. #59
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    wiltondeportes, is this what you have in mind:


  10. #60
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    Fighting half drunk outside a bar is not real self defense, by no means! In a self defence situation people should first try to get away and being a good sprinter may me more useful than any material art for just that. If you can't get away throw punches to keep distance, boxing is good for that, high kicks should be avoided. If close contact; a fast judo throw is very efficent, but avoid going to the ground, just try to get away from the situation...

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