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  1. #11
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    BJJ is great to know, but severely lacking if that's all you know. ESPECIALLY against multiple attackers, and especially if they're armed with anything more than fists. Working someone into an arm bar isn't much good if his friends are stomping you at the same time.

    BJJ is great, but don't make it your only tool. I prefer being very well trained with empty hands, edged weapons, and firearms.

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    Word that was always my complaint against jiu-jitsu, at least how people practice it here and now; any fight I have ever been in has been in a public place surrounded by multiple opponents. I got no time to be rolling around in grappling holds, and would have just had bottles broken over my head and shit.

    NJ hardcore east-coast moshing style wheeling hands and feet combined with primitive thumb gouging strikes hasn't failed me yet.

    I'm with the Scottish guy that says that any art is good- any martial art's purpose is to just condition the muscle memory to connect snap-judgment sense-impressions (an incoming fist, for example) with practiced movements- if you are the type of person that freezes up, even for a heart-beat, in that kind of situation, and you are left processing, "Go to my training!!!" then in the breath that it takes to get your body set for that form, you are already having your jaw broken. Most fights that I have seen are over in the first second and the victor is obvious immediately by the face that he is making.
    Last edited by Mr.Perfidy; 05-20-2013 at 10:04 AM.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    How does Jiu-Jitsu handle concrete/asphalt? I'm curious about that because when you're sparring you can be aggressive with takedowns on a padded mat, but can you pull off the same thing outside on the street on asphalt, especially if the opponent is heavy?
    as opposed to what, just standing there and getting the crap kicked out of you? a few scrapes on the knees, elbows, and back would be worth it if it meant my overall health and well being was protected
    I have a lot of hard miles on my body from before I realized I'm not 100% invulnerable. Now I just think I'm 75% invulnerable. -Mr. Anthony

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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
    BJJ is great to know, but severely lacking if that's all you know. ESPECIALLY against multiple attackers, and especially if they're armed with anything more than fists. Working someone into an arm bar isn't much good if his friends are stomping you at the same time.

    BJJ is great, but don't make it your only tool. I prefer being very well trained with empty hands, edged weapons, and firearms.

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    this is a valid point. however, lets not forget that life isn't a movie scene. you aren't going to chuck norris your way out of a mob of people no matter what you know. rule # 1- avoid the conflict. rule # 2- avoid the damn conflict. if it seems like you are going to get stomped by a crowd, get the f outta there. don't be a tough guy. if some dude and his buddies are starting shit, and you're all by yourself, let him "win" the verbal confrontation. let him be the big man. who really cares? you could have 15 years of martial arts experience, 5-6 guys are still going to kick your ass. and if they're armed with bats, tire irons, knives, etc, then you're screwed. one of my biggest problems with teaching anyone martial arts/boxing/etc is that they are lulled in to a false sense of security with it.
    I have a lot of hard miles on my body from before I realized I'm not 100% invulnerable. Now I just think I'm 75% invulnerable. -Mr. Anthony

    Give me a spouse/life-partner who I don't want to punch in the throat when she talks. -Canio6

  5. #15
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    If those 5-6 guys are like, a biker gang, or a drug operation or something, then you should probably avoid them, but every physical confrontation that I have ever seen involving groups of men are really conflicts with 1 or 2 loud men in a group of spectactors who know how to display juuuuust enough aggression to say, after the fight, that they kicked someone's ass. They scatter when you identify and drop their inspirational leader type personalities.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

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    haha an exception would be Mexicans. I would do anything that I could to avoid fighting even one mexican
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    haha an exception would be Mexicans. I would do anything that I could to avoid fighting even one mexican
    Then stay out I Mexico I guess.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
    BJJ is great to know, but severely lacking if that's all you know. ESPECIALLY against multiple attackers, and especially if they're armed with anything more than fists.
    What isn't? If not Jiu Jitsu, then what?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
    Working someone into an arm bar isn't much good if his friends are stomping you at the same time.
    What is good if someone's friends are stomping you? I have to repeat the question above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
    BJJ is great, but don't make it your only tool.
    If you're going to fight in contemporary MMA, some striking and some wrestling training are quite definitely in order. Otherwise, your argument is kind of like saying a Chevrolet is not a good car because it can't drive over water or fly through the air.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
    I prefer being very well trained with empty hands, edged weapons, and firearms.
    All those are great ideas. Just don't imagine that you're going to turn into Rambo without quitting your job and devoting all your time to training tactical stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    How does Jiu-Jitsu handle concrete/asphalt? I'm curious about that because when you're sparring you can be aggressive with takedowns on a padded mat, but can you pull off the same thing outside on the street on asphalt, especially if the opponent is heavy?
    I thought we were talking about self-defense. If you get put on your back, regardless of the surface, don't you think it's a helpful skillset to be able to fight from there and get up from there? And to have done so thousands of times agains larger, stronger, resisting opponents?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    If those 5-6 guys are like, a biker gang, or a drug operation or something, then you should probably avoid them, but every physical confrontation that I have ever seen involving groups of men are really conflicts with 1 or 2 loud men in a group of spectactors who know how to display juuuuust enough aggression to say, after the fight, that they kicked someone's ass. They scatter when you identify and drop their inspirational leader type personalities.
    typically true. and trust me on this one, I've been in my fair share of fights. but i'd rather be called a pussy because I wouldn't engage a couple of losers outside of a bar, then find out the hard way when a half dozen of their buddies come bursting out the door, full of liquid courage and gang mentality
    I have a lot of hard miles on my body from before I realized I'm not 100% invulnerable. Now I just think I'm 75% invulnerable. -Mr. Anthony

    Give me a spouse/life-partner who I don't want to punch in the throat when she talks. -Canio6

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    this is a valid point. however, lets not forget that life isn't a movie scene. you aren't going to chuck norris your way out of a mob of people no matter what you know. rule # 1- avoid the conflict. rule # 2- avoid the damn conflict. if it seems like you are going to get stomped by a crowd, get the f outta there. don't be a tough guy. if some dude and his buddies are starting shit, and you're all by yourself, let him "win" the verbal confrontation. let him be the big man. who really cares? you could have 15 years of martial arts experience, 5-6 guys are still going to kick your ass. and if they're armed with bats, tire irons, knives, etc, then you're screwed. one of my biggest problems with teaching anyone martial arts/boxing/etc is that they are lulled in to a false sense of security with it.
    I agree--I stay the hell away from "fights" or situations that might lead to them. My days of caring what some drunk frat guy thinks about me are long behind.

    I do, however, train like hell for the off chance that someone intends to do me very real harm or death, when all the avoidance in the world would have no effect on the situation. In that case...

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