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  1. #21
    Ecala's Avatar
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    Primal Fuel


    And FTR, I said there is NOT a healthcare crisis-- even though, I have to admit, it's not perfect.


    We have the best doctors in the world and no one is denied healthcare.


  2. #22
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    OTB- I have no insurance. I pay out of pocket on my $18,000 a year income.


    Tell me... what do you think would happen if Burger King gave away free hamburgers? Everybody would want a hamburger, whether they need it or not. Same goes for healthcare. You'll have every ninny and her nine kids down there for runny noses and slivers.


    I'd also like to know how you love the DMV, the post office, or the VA. Yup, the government sure does a great job of running things.


    Do tell me how I'm supposed to feel when my 70-year-old mother, who is full of life, develops cancer and the government recomends "end of life councelling" instead of treating her because it's "not worth the expense."


    Tell me how I'm supposed to feel if I develop cancer and am told to wait 6 months (behind the sniffling noses and splinters) to get the scans I need to diagnose. Tell me how I'm supposed to feel if I end up having to wait 8 months for a root canal.


    Tell me, OTB, what the incentive is for people to eat healthfully, drive safely and take care of themselves if the hospital will just fix it for free?


    And then you get into the arena of the government telling you what you can and can't do (or eat) because it'll cost the government more money to pay your doctor bills. You know those saturated fats CW hates so much? They could be banned just like trans fats. No more good fat for you because the Nanny State says so. So should the government dictate how I should live my life based on what the stats say they'll have to pay for my bills?


    "From each according to his ability to each according to his need." That's what Obama is proposing. Tax the so-called "rich" to pay for poor folks' healthcare. Look up the phrase. It's Marxism.


    Socialized medicine is a FAILURE everywhere it's tried. The Brits are learning that now because they're BROKE. Hawaii tried giving free healthcare to uninsured children. It lasted 7 months before they went broke.


  3. #23
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    We are ALL going to disagree on this and no one is going to 'convince' anyone of the 'issue' (sigh).


    I just don't think Big Brother should have any more control. PERIOD. I don't see why I would be viewed as an 'idiot' for thinking so! :-/


    That's why our Country was founded in the first place. The Queen told us what religion to be, etc, etc. The Constitution was to be set forth to hold 'Big Government' accountable by the little people.


    WHY, WHY, WHY do you want socialized reform? Go to another Country then? I really don't see any other way.


    Anyway, I'm done arguing, because no one will 'transform' their opinion.


    After wrestling with the pig in the mud, after a while, you realize the pig likes it....


  4. #24
    marika's Avatar
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    I agree, SassaFrass88! And Diana, Kfine, FlyNavyWife, Ecala!


    It heartens me to see so many like-minded folks here! Yes!! Maybe there is a hope for freedom still!


  5. #25
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    [quote]

    "From each according to his ability to each according to his need." That's what Obama is proposing. Tax the so-called "rich" to pay for poor folks' healthcare. Look up the phrase. It's Marxism.
    </blockquote>


    PUKE! That makes me want to just RETCH in disgust and dismay.
    [quote]

    Anyway, I&#39;m done arguing, because no one will &#39;transform&#39; their opinion.


    After wrestling with the pig in the mud, after a while, you realize the pig likes it.... </blockquote>


    Sadly, you&#39;re right.


  6. #26
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    This is the Atlas Society (Objectivists) take on the issue.


    http://www.atlassociety.org/showcontent.aspx?ct=14&h=53


    Check it out it&#39;s a good read.

    “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
    "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

  7. #27
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    Here is a CRAZY idea...how about we take all of the money that Obama wants to spend on healthcare reform and create jobs within companies that pay for healthcare for their employees? I know I know, it&#39;s way too simplistic to work.


  8. #28
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    Don&#39;t believe I said anyone would be &#39;denied&#39; medical care... just that it is unaffordable and will put them into debt for the rest of the lives. Many people opt not to go that route, especially as insurers refuse them.

    Start weight: 250 - 06/2009
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  9. #29
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    [quote]

    "From each according to his ability to each according to his need." That&#39;s what Obama is proposing. Tax the so-called "rich" to pay for poor folks&#39; healthcare. Look up the phrase. It&#39;s Marxism. </blockquote>


    Well, I did look up Marxism, but I didn&#39;t exactly find that. Most articles/definitions seemed geared towards the clash of the non-owning, working class and the owning, non-working class; specifically, I seemed to find that Marxism references the supposed domination of the former by the latter through capitalism. The root of Marxist theory appears to be that this struggle inevitably leads to a proletariat uprising, and as such is a driving force of historical change in societies. I did not find "Robin Hood" ethics overtly mentioned; however, I concede that this could be due to a very brief search.


    While I respect your impassioned argument, I do not believe that you showed what is wrong with the health care proposal. You have presented several undeniably terrible and unjust situations, a veritable doomsday collage of future medical tragedies to be had under socialized medicine. However, I want to know exactly what parts of the current proposals lead you to believe that such situations are unavoidable. What specific provisions in the plan will cause these dire circumstances to materialize and how? Is something terribly worded in the proposal, or are there flagrant errors in logic? Unless you can provide specific examples of what parts of the proposal will lead to your tragic examples, your argument is nothing but empty, albeit passionate, rhetoric. You have appealed to my emotions, but I am not convinced until you appeal to my logic.


    I do not mean to sound unduly critical of your post--I really do want to learn more about this situation, and I am hoping that you have some specifics to support your claim as you seem to be more well-read on the subject than I am. I&#39;m really not trying to sound snide; it&#39;s so hard to convey amiability or neutrality in internet discourse without resorting to excessive emoticons. Since I&#39;m not fifteen, I think I should refrain from that.


    I am still hoping someone can explain Germany&#39;s medical system and how it differs from Canada and Britain, and how this current proposal compares to Germany&#39;s reportedly successful system.


  10. #30
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    I signed it and passed it on. I don&#39;t want more government intrusion in my life or some government bureaucrat making decisions on my health care.


    I do agree that the system needs improvement. So fix it. Don&#39;t throw the baby out with the bath water and start from scratch with a big government bureaucracy. When was the last time government ran a successful on budget entitlement program?


    Also what is the rush. The damn thing doesn&#39;t go into affect until 2013. So slow down, get it right and keep government run health care out of it.


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