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    YogaBare's Avatar
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    Full blood and hormone panel... some problems. Insights appreciated!

    Primal Fuel
    Hey everybody,

    Some of you may remember me from such emotional threads as "My doctor is a moron", "Live fast diet young", and "Sugar - the forgotten panacea" (two of these thread titles might be made up).

    Anyway - off the back of my extraordinarily high cholesterol, plus a host of other symptoms (notably "too frequent" menstruation) I decided to get a full blood and hormone panel done. Any insights any one could give me would be really appreciated!

    Hormones
    My Estrogen is high. The range is between 28 - 1828 (depending on time of cycle) - mine is 2028.
    My cortisol is high. Morning range is 6.2 - 19.4. Mine is 20.67.
    Prolactin (337.3), Progesteron (1.94), testosterone (1.18)are all in the normal range.
    Also got Serotonin tested but have to wait two weeks for this.

    Thyroid
    TSH: 1.42 (normal)
    FT3: 3.84 (norm is 3.13 - 6.76)
    FT4: 12.29 (norm is 12 - 22)
    LH: 10.32 }
    FSH: 3.09 } Don't know much about these, but they seem normal?

    So I'm not hypo, but my FT3 and FT4 are borderline. Anyone who has experience with hypothyroidism: I want to take preventative measures to make sure that these don't drop lower. What can I do to help this?

    Urine
    I have an infection here. No idea how long I might have had this.

    Erythrocytes and leukocytes are both a little high (23 and 25 respectively; norms are 20).
    Flat epithelium is quite high: 89 (norm is less than 30)
    Bacteria: 3490 (norm is less than 400)
    pH was fine (6.5).

    I've given another sample and am seeing the doctor tomorrow. They say I have to go on anti-biotics but need to determine which ones. I hate going on anti-biotics. What can I do to help my gut flora repopulate? Should I take a probiotic?

    Blood and Lipids
    Weird result with my iron and ferretin. My iron is high: 154 (norm is 145), but my ferretin is on the lower side of normal: 35 (norm is 13 - 150).

    Total Cholesterol: 354 (from 355 (which was the recheck) a few weeks ago)
    LDL: 229 (from 220.5 a few weeks ago)
    HDL: 108 (from 114.46)
    Trigs: 83 (from 109)

    So cholesterol is still high, LDL has gone up even more, and HDL has gone down. But there's a good improvement in my trigs in just a few weeks. I severely reduced my fat intake and started taking milk thistle.

    Morphology
    Mostly everything was normal, but my hematocrits, Monocytes and leukocytes are borderline low, and my neutrocytes are slightly under. Could be explained by the urinary infection?

    Good news:
    Inflammation is practically non existent: 0.3 (the norm is 5)
    Fasting glucose is 84 (norm is 74 - 106)
    Electrolytes and minerals are perfect.

    A lot of info I know. If anyone has the stomach or knowledge to help I'd really appreciate it! I"m seeing an endo tomorrow, and getting a scan of my reproductive system. So will know more then.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 05-09-2013 at 03:38 AM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  2. #2
    Lynna's Avatar
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    I can't answer to many of these, but it is possible to have a UTI and not know it. I had one. I took the antibiotics and cleared it up. I hate taking them too, but sometimes they are necessary. Take a probiotic or eat some live yogurt, or drink some kombucha, or drink some kefir or whatever fermented foods you enjoy to take care of your gut flora.

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    While your total cholesterol number looks high, your lipid ratios are stellar. I wouldn't stress over it.
    Some of you may die, but that is a risk I'm willing to take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynna View Post
    I can't answer to many of these, but it is possible to have a UTI and not know it. I had one. I took the antibiotics and cleared it up. I hate taking them too, but sometimes they are necessary. Take a probiotic or eat some live yogurt, or drink some kombucha, or drink some kefir or whatever fermented foods you enjoy to take care of your gut flora.
    The fermented foods may be enough to clear the infection, but if you're worried, just take the antibiotics and then make sure you get plenty of fermented foods after. Taking probiotics while you take the antibiotics is pretty useless.

    Do some research for "estrogen dominance". I know I've read around the paleosphere from people who have dealt with it, but can't think of who/where now.
    Journal on depression/anxiety
    Currently trying to figure out WTF to eat (for IBS-C).

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    Going by FT4, you are barely in range. FT3 is better but still not near midrange. This says to me that while you do not have enough FT4, it is being converted to FT3-- indicated by FT3(20%) being higher in its range than your FT4 (3%) is in its range.

    As a point of reference I was diagnosed hypo with a TSH of 7.71 (.35-5.50). My FT4 was.98 (.70-1.53) which was 34% of the range. FT3 wasn't routinely done at that time. I would feel horrible with your numbers.

    Your cortisol may be high because your adrenal glands are trying to compensate for the low levels of FT4 and FT3. I've had similar results and an endo was not concerned since I was only slightly out of range.

    Your iron may be normal or high because your body is using ferritin to keep the blood levels up. Since your hematocrit is low you could be trending toward anemia.

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    I can't offer advice on the lab results- but- as an alternative to trying antibiotics for a UTI, can I suggest garlic oil pearls (I just buy mine from the vitamins section at the supermarket) - taking them cleared one right up for me as fast as ABs do, with the added bonus of no wipeout of the good bacteria.

    One negative is the garlicy burps after taking them... make sure you have with food!

    Good luck with the appt tomorrow, hun.

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    I think your high cholesterol is most likely just a marker of everything else that's going on, the fact that your T3 is low doesn't help that, as your LDL receptors are downregulated which means the LDL stays in the blood longer.

    Deal with the UTI, whether you go antibiotics or natural or both, I'm not familiar with UTI's, but my inclination is to go with both to make sure you clear it with one course. One bout of antibiotics isn't going to wipe out your gut flora totally, so afterwards probably a good idea to up the fermented stuff and stick to well cooked foods to ease the mechanical load on gut and improve nutritional uptake.

    As for the thyroid, unless you are actually starting to feel negative, like Hypo symptoms, I wouldn't stress too much over it, it is likely also a secondary response to underlying issues, as a general rule according to T3 & T4 you are technically Hypo, but there is not much known about TSH role in the rest of the body as there is TSH receptors throughout the body, The HPT axis isn't the only one with regard to TSH, I'd suggest there are many as yet undiscovered Axis. As an example individuals can express mild Hypo and Hyper symptoms with both T3 & T4 perfectly in range, but TSH just slightly high or low, so this suggests TSH may play a bigger role in the manifestation of both Hyper & Hypo than T3 or T4.
    The thyroid is definately one to watch, but I wouldn't go knee jerk, investigate mild nutritional and herbal support for the thyroid, maybe minimise raw goitrogens like crucifers, and get some selenium rich foods in, garlic, brazil nuts, don't go crazy with it though, I assume your not restricting or supplimenting Iodine so it should be fine.
    If you do start to feel some hypo symptoms then it may be worth considering a low dose of Thyroxine just to boost T4 and hence T3 levels, but this is only a symptomatic treatment, core issues still need to be dealt with.

    The high Estrogen and short cycle are simulating a perimenopausal situation, like many of these things there can be many different causes of high estrogen, and it may well be doing a balancing act with the thyroid levels, question is who's in charge and orchestrating that dance.
    On that note of who's in charge, ever checked your Fasting Leptin levels?
    What is your menstral cycle history, when did they become short, are they still regular, flow and timing?
    This may give more clues as to where your problems lie, from memory you had a bit of a whirlwind run, going from Vegan to Primal to VLC to high carb and now at eat primal freely with no counting and you have been feeling much better.
    If you are still feeling good then there is a very high likelihood that all these inconsistencies in your hormonal situation may just be lagging your current dietary situation.
    The process is first you start to feel better, then your body starts to heal, once healing has progressed the body relaxes the high alert and hormone levels start to fall back into line.

    How's your GI process, all regular, good consistancy and flow?
    That's all I've got for now.

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    YogaBare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynna View Post
    I can't answer to many of these, but it is possible to have a UTI and not know it. I had one. I took the antibiotics and cleared it up. I hate taking them too, but sometimes they are necessary. Take a probiotic or eat some live yogurt, or drink some kombucha, or drink some kefir or whatever fermented foods you enjoy to take care of your gut flora.
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Timber View Post
    While your total cholesterol number looks high, your lipid ratios are stellar. I wouldn't stress over it.
    Quote Originally Posted by namelesswonder View Post
    The fermented foods may be enough to clear the infection, but if you're worried, just take the antibiotics and then make sure you get plenty of fermented foods after. Taking probiotics while you take the antibiotics is pretty useless.

    Do some research for "estrogen dominance". I know I've read around the paleosphere from people who have dealt with it, but can't think of who/where now.
    Thank you all for the input and suggestions! <3

    Good to know that there's no point in taking probiotics at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by heatherp View Post
    I can't offer advice on the lab results- but- as an alternative to trying antibiotics for a UTI, can I suggest garlic oil pearls (I just buy mine from the vitamins section at the supermarket) - taking them cleared one right up for me as fast as ABs do, with the added bonus of no wipeout of the good bacteria.

    One negative is the garlicy burps after taking them... make sure you have with food!

    Good luck with the appt tomorrow, hun.
    Cheers heatherp I appreciate the warm wishes. The garlic pearls sound perfect... I'm with my mum over here though and I think she might freak at teh prospect of something holistic but I'll see what I can sort out, lol.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

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    YogaBare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcadav View Post
    Going by FT4, you are barely in range. FT3 is better but still not near midrange. This says to me that while you do not have enough FT4, it is being converted to FT3-- indicated by FT3(20%) being higher in its range than your FT4 (3%) is in its range.

    As a point of reference I was diagnosed hypo with a TSH of 7.71 (.35-5.50). My FT4 was.98 (.70-1.53) which was 34% of the range. FT3 wasn't routinely done at that time. I would feel horrible with your numbers.

    Your cortisol may be high because your adrenal glands are trying to compensate for the low levels of FT4 and FT3. I've had similar results and an endo was not concerned since I was only slightly out of range.

    Your iron may be normal or high because your body is using ferritin to keep the blood levels up. Since your hematocrit is low you could be trending toward anemia.
    Thanks for your input Marcadav! It's a relief to know that you've had similar numbers and felt rotten. Nice to know it's not "all in my head" So annoying that doctors don't take things seriously until you are actually "sick" (whatever numbers they use to define that).

    Would you recommend taking something like thyroid armour or cytomel to get my numbers up?

    I was anemic when I was vegetarian, so maybe my numbers reflect that. Or is could be because I'm menstruating so frequently...
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

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    YogaBare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    As for the thyroid, unless you are actually starting to feel negative, like Hypo symptoms, I wouldn't stress too much over it, it is likely also a secondary response to underlying issues, as a general rule according to T3 & T4 you are technically Hypo, but there is not much known about TSH role in the rest of the body as there is TSH receptors throughout the body, The HPT axis isn't the only one with regard to TSH, I'd suggest there are many as yet undiscovered Axis. As an example individuals can express mild Hypo and Hyper symptoms with both T3 & T4 perfectly in range, but TSH just slightly high or low, so this suggests TSH may play a bigger role in the manifestation of both Hyper & Hypo than T3 or T4.
    The thyroid is definately one to watch, but I wouldn't go knee jerk, investigate mild nutritional and herbal support for the thyroid, maybe minimise raw goitrogens like crucifers, and get some selenium rich foods in, garlic, brazil nuts, don't go crazy with it though, I assume your not restricting or supplimenting Iodine so it should be fine.
    If you do start to feel some hypo symptoms then it may be worth considering a low dose of Thyroxine just to boost T4 and hence T3 levels, but this is only a symptomatic treatment, core issues still need to be dealt with.

    The high Estrogen and short cycle are simulating a perimenopausal situation, like many of these things there can be many different causes of high estrogen, and it may well be doing a balancing act with the thyroid levels, question is who's in charge and orchestrating that dance.
    On that note of who's in charge, ever checked your Fasting Leptin levels?
    What is your menstral cycle history, when did they become short, are they still regular, flow and timing?
    This may give more clues as to where your problems lie, from memory you had a bit of a whirlwind run, going from Vegan to Primal to VLC to high carb and now at eat primal freely with no counting and you have been feeling much better.
    If you are still feeling good then there is a very high likelihood that all these inconsistencies in your hormonal situation may just be lagging your current dietary situation.
    The process is first you start to feel better, then your body starts to heal, once healing has progressed the body relaxes the high alert and hormone levels start to fall back into line.

    How's your GI process, all regular, good consistancy and flow?
    That's all I've got for now.
    Thanks for your response Omni

    The reason I started getting all the blood work done was because I have a ton of hypo symptoms: depression, in ability to regulate temp, insomnia, energy crashes etc. etc. Right now I'm feeling a lot better, so I know I'm on the right track, but my energy is still crashing so that's something to monitor.

    Asked for fasting Leptin, but they didn't have the option here. All good with the GI these days - better than ever actually!

    Cycle history: it's never been regular. At a young age I had cysts and went on the pill which masked the symtoms for a number of years. Came off it about five years ago and since then I skipped a lot of periods, but I was underweight and vegetarian a lot. Since starting to eat meat again in July (and gaining weight) it's been getting increasingly short.

    You're right that everything is linked: it's just a matter of finding what the initial weak link is.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

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