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Thread: HIT time under load and Strength rep schemes page

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    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    HIT time under load and Strength rep schemes

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    So I didn't use the term "vs" because I'm not focusing on an either/or discussion. Actually I'm looking at some commonalities in the building of strength and muscle between what at first glance seems to be different philosophies. I can't take complete credit either because I know I've read some of this in the past elsewhere... just cant put my finger on where.

    So something for us to look into and think about. I currently do one working set to failure that usually lasts between 50-90 seconds depending on the exercise and if I've just increased the resistance ect.... This is a TUL or Time under tension without rest and without lockout of the joints. Currently my cadence is close to 5/5 so anywere from 4-8 reps usually. When you do a slow cadence the first 2 reps are usually purposely slowed while the last couple reps are that slow cause your pushing with 100% effort and the weight just ain't gonna move any faster.

    When we perform multiple sets how much time is your muscle actually under tension? 1-2 seconds concentric and maybe 2 seconds eccentric right? So less than half the time under tension for a working set of 5. Seems likely that 3-5 sets will get your TUL to the same totals right? Is this just an interesting coincidence or is there a mechanism to this total time of muscular work that is optimal for stimulating increased muscle size and strength? What do you think?

    Oh, to reiterate....not a "my program is better than yours" discussion here. I actually blend the two right now, but have done both exclusively also.

    If anyone finds the blog post that I stole this from please post it.....
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 05-05-2013 at 01:11 PM.

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    not on the rug's Avatar
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    if i remember correctly, dorian yates used to train in this manner. several "warm-up" sets, culminating in one working set. i'm not exactly sure of the cadence he performed the lifts of that working set.

    how many warm-up sets are you performing before you actually do the working set? and at what cadence and rep ranges? what % of the weight of the working set?
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    Well this was my last workout:

    Weighted Chins 50lbs/drop set to BW 60s/32s TUL
    Weighted Dips 60lbs/drop set to BW 47s/27s TUL
    Leg press 87s TUL

    HIT to failure with about a 5/5 cadence. No rest between exercises. Followed this routine with some pushups and lateral raises as some "accessory" work.

    So rep wise wise I do fall in the 4-8 category depending on if you count my drop set which is done as part of my original and flows right in since all I do is drop the weight belt and continue.

    For warmup I go through the whole workout 2x as a circuit with no weight and just do the movements 5-10 reps.

    Its really hard to say what percent of my max I am working at. I haven't maxed out in a very long time. This weight is definitely "heavy" for me though. Sure I could be doing more weight with no attention to cadence and using more momentum, but that tends to go against why I'm using this method. I go till temporary muscle failure then stay contracted for at least 10 seconds as a rule.

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    Well this was my last workout:

    Weighted Chins 50lbs/drop set to BW 60s/32s TUL
    Weighted Dips 60lbs/drop set to BW 47s/27s TUL
    Leg press 87s TUL

    HIT to failure with about a 5/5 cadence. No rest between exercises. Followed this routine with some pushups and lateral raises as some "accessory" work.

    So rep wise wise I do fall in the 4-8 category depending on if you count my drop set which is done as part of my original and flows right in since all I do is drop the weight belt and continue. I go more by time under load though.... and when I break 60s I raise the weight. So next time weighted chins will be 55lbs.

    For warmup I go through the whole workout 2x as a circuit with no weight and just do the movements 5-10 reps.

    Its really hard to say what percent of my max I am working at. I haven't maxed out in a very long time. This weight is definitely "heavy" for me though. Sure I could be doing more weight with no attention to cadence and using more momentum, but that tends to go against why I'm using this method. I go till temporary muscle failure then stay contracted for at least 10 seconds as a rule.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 05-06-2013 at 08:56 AM.

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    Instead of doing drop-set I prefer to do rest-pause with the same load. Lets say I am doing weighted dips; in the final top set I do one initial set of around 8 reps close to failure. Then I take 5 - 6 deep breaths and a miniset of 2-3 close to failure. Then another 5-6 deep breaths and 1-2 reps close to failure. Then I shorten the pause a little to 3 - 5 deep breath and continue with one rep, same pause until failure, usually after 3 - 4 repetition of one. then I climb up and do 2 -3 negatives, but without any rest between, to come close to eccentric failure as well. Training like that is pretty strong medicine, so make sure not to overdo it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Instead of doing drop-set I prefer to do rest-pause with the same load. Lets say I am doing weighted dips; in the final top set I do one initial set of around 8 reps close to failure. Then I take 5 - 6 deep breaths and a miniset of 2-3 close to failure. Then another 5-6 deep breaths varand 1-2 reps close to failure. Then I shorten the pause a little to 3 - 5 deep breath and continue with one rep, same pause until failure, usually after 3 - 4 repetition of one. then I climb up and do 2 -3 negatives, but without any rest between, to come close to eccentric failure as well. Training like that is pretty strong medicine, so make sure not to overdo it...
    Yup I like the various HIT techniques and switch them out when things get stale. Rest pause is great. That rest pause then hitting eccentric failure sounds pretty intense. I normally hit concentric failure then the static max contract for about ten seconds. I may give the eccentric work a shot next month when I switch things up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Yup I like the various HIT techniques and switch them out when things get stale. Rest pause is great. That rest pause then hitting eccentric failure sounds pretty intense. I normally hit concentric failure then the static max contract for about ten seconds. I may give the eccentric work a shot next month when I switch things up.
    I usually train high volume, but I make sure to get a high intensity set in between, usually two or three times per month on a few of my key exercises. The good thing about weigthed dips is that you don't need a spotter to reach full failure. Some months ago I got chest pain after doing such a set, and x-ray discovered two fracturated ribs(!), but I am not sure if I got it from the dips or from the heavy dumbbell pullower that I did after it...

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    ^ Ouch! I would guess the pullover.....I have felt that really contract and hit those intercostal muscles before.

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    yeah, I may give the eccentric work a shot next month when I switch things up too

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    Neck, I'm new to this way of working out. Was wondering do you keep your cadence consistent through each rep? Any advice when starting out? I'm focusing on body weight exercises and I use resistances bands, which is definitely not the best, but I'm making due with what I have. I'm also working on the mental aspects of pushing myself through to exhaustion. It's been quite the learning experience. I typically do 8-10 different exercises, full body, for a total TUL of 15-17 minutes. I'm exhausted by the end of the workout.

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