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Thread: Even More Steak and Eggs: Plus Plants vs. Animals! page 7

  1. #61
    eKatherine's Avatar
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    The issue is that it is circular. If someone hasn't been diagnosed with celiac, they're told that they should not give up gluten. But the reason they have not been diagnosed may be that their doctor may be behind the times or incompetent, or that they are asymptomatic, or that the tests give high numbers of false negatives, or they are non-celiac gluten intolerant.

    I'm not saying there is an easy solution to a complex problem, just that hearing over and over again that you shouldn't give up gluten unless you know you are celiac is something people often hear that shortens lives.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    The issue is that it is circular. If someone hasn't been diagnosed with celiac, they're told that they should not give up gluten. But the reason they have not been diagnosed may be that their doctor may be behind the times or incompetent, or that they are asymptomatic, or that the tests give high numbers of false negatives, or they are non-celiac gluten intolerant.

    I'm not saying there is an easy solution to a complex problem, just that hearing over and over again that you shouldn't give up gluten unless you know you are celiac is something people often hear that shortens lives.
    ...And greatly reduces the quality of life.

    Yep.
    We exist.
    Auto-immune diseases.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by KT79 View Post
    Going gluten free only works for weight-loss if you eat mostly whole foods and avoid the processed gluten free substitute products. If anything, processed gluten free food is less healthy and nutritious and more calorie-dense than the product it's trying to replace. Plus, most of it is expensive and doesn't taste that good.

    If your girlfriend is really missing beer, you should look for Green's - it's a Belgian beer that's both vegan and gluten free, and it comes in 3-flavors - it's pretty tasty, considering it's gluten free. Whole Foods sometimes carries it.
    Good point KT79, I should have mentioned this important fact in my earlier post.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajm422 View Post
    Yesterday morning I was lethargic, groggy, and miserable on my bike ride in. Well, I haven't left for work yet but I feel amazing! My weight is down from 170.8 to 170.2, my body isn't sore, and I feel hale and strong. I doubt it made much of a difference, but I took a few big bites of sauerkraut last night with my dinner. I still had diarrhea last night, but at this point it doesn't really bother me so much. Stool frequency is up I must admit, but it's not really so bad. And my muscles look AMAZING.
    Great to hear your are feeling better, congrats on the weight loss! Other than the bowel challenges you appear to have had some amazing results. Its interesting how some people have diarrhea and others are constipated. Personally I went from going once a day to once every two days. Really value you input thanks for participating.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck416 View Post
    Great to hear your are feeling better, congrats on the weight loss! Other than the bowel challenges you appear to have had some amazing results. Its interesting how some people have diarrhea and others are constipated. Personally I went from going once a day to once every two days. Really value you input thanks for participating.
    It's been a blast! The (second) most amazing thing so far is my persistent enthusiasm for steak and eggs. I really do have yet to tire of it. Prior to the diet I didn't eat very much red meat, so maybe that's why. But today it was as if a flip was switched. Rather than waking up with cramps and the immediate need to go sit on the john, I woke up refreshed. My bike into work was even easier than normal somehow - it felt like what I imagine blood doping feels like. I haven't even gone #2 yet today!

    I decided to move my carb day from tomorrow to today so that I can go to Macaroni Grill and get pasta and bread. Tomorrow I'm taking my mom out to lunch and I'll just do the best I can. Or have a 1.5 day carb up. I dunno, we'll see.

    Question for you: I normally fast for 48 hours between Monday night and Wednesday night. What's your gut reaction to me doing that in conjunction with steak and eggs? I didn't last time because I was new to the diet and didn't want to further freak my body out. But I think I might try it next week. I can't see how it would be a big deal, as I'm isoenergetic with my usual cutting diet. Think Imma go for it.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajm422 View Post
    Question for you: I normally fast for 48 hours between Monday night and Wednesday night. What's your gut reaction to me doing that in conjunction with steak and eggs? I didn't last time because I was new to the diet and didn't want to further freak my body out. But I think I might try it next week. I can't see how it would be a big deal, as I'm isoenergetic with my usual cutting diet. Think Imma go for it.
    Sure go for it and see how you feel. Personally the naturally scheduled IF 16/8 with the two meals works best for me but it will be interesting to see how your body reacts. The combination of the 48 hour fast and the IF should give you a large calorie deficit for the week, but keep in mind that it will speed the leptin decrease, slow down your fat cell release process and result in some fatigue by Thursday. You may have to go to a 2 day carb refeed on the following weekend.
    Last edited by canuck416; 05-10-2013 at 11:10 AM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck416 View Post
    The combination of the 48 hour fast and the IF should give you a large calorie deficit for the week and may speed the leptin decrease resulting in some fatigue by Thursday.
    I hope my results mirror those of this study: Ramadan fastings effect on plasma leptin, adiponectin concentrations, and body composition in trained young men. This looked at the aggregate effects of fasting over the course of a month, but those subjects (who were young and lean, i.e. applies to me) did not experience a net reduction in leptin.

    Also interesting: one of the effects of chronically low leptin (for example: in lean individuals with little body fat) is decreased metabolic rate thanks to a decrease in catecholamines. Catacholamines (autonomic stimulants) are mediated by leptin (among other things), so it makes sense that low serum leptin is associated with a lower metabolism through decreased catecholamine expression. (It's tough to tease out causation vs. correlation, but this sounds reasonable to me.) However, Short-term fasting-induced autonomic activation and changes in catecholamine levels are not mediated by changes in leptin levels in healthy humans. provides interesting insight into the effects of leptin on catecholamines during a 72 hour fast. In this case, young (22.4 ± 3.3 years) lean (BMI 21.5 ± 2.0 kg/m2) women fasted for 72 hours. And though their circulating leptin levels fell by 80%, their heart rates and catecholamines (in this case norepinephrine and dopamine) increased after 72 hours. This is wild: after 72 hours of fasting, these women had an increased metabolism, even in the face of seriously reduced leptin and no food for three days! The authors say in the discussion that they expect no difference in men - women have higher baseline levels of leptin but during a fast both genders experience proportionately similar drops in leptin. Finally, ending the fast results in higher baseline leptin levels than before the fast! Basically, fasting is freaking awesome.

    You may have to go to a 2 day carb refeed on the following weekend.
    Aaaand you just made up my mind
    Last edited by ajm422; 05-10-2013 at 11:38 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajm422 View Post
    I hope my results mirror those of this study: Ramadan fastings effect on plasma leptin, adiponectin concentrations, and body composition in trained young men. This looked at the aggregate effects of fasting over the course of a month, but those subjects (who were young and lean, i.e. applies to me) did not experience a net reduction in leptin.

    Also interesting: one of the effects of chronically low leptin (for example: in lean individuals with little body fat) is decreased metabolic rate thanks to a decrease in catecholamines. Catacholamines (autonomic stimulants) are mediated by leptin (among other things), so it makes sense that low serum leptin is associated with a lower metabolism through decreased catecholamine expression. (It's tough to tease out causation vs. correlation, but this sounds reasonable to me.) However, Short-term fasting-induced autonomic activation and changes in catecholamine levels are not mediated by changes in leptin levels in healthy humans. provides interesting insight into the effects of leptin on catecholamines during a 72 hour fast. In this case, young (22.4 ± 3.3 years) lean (BMI 21.5 ± 2.0 kg/m2) women fasted for 72 hours. And though their circulating leptin levels fell by 80%, their heart rates and catecholamines (in this case norepinephrine and dopamine) increased after 72 hours. This is wild: after 72 hours of fasting, these women had an increased metabolism, even in the face of seriously reduced leptin and no food for three days! The authors say in the discussion that they expect no difference in men - women have higher baseline levels of leptin but during a fast both genders experience proportionately similar drops in leptin. Finally, ending the fast results in higher baseline leptin levels than before the fast! Basically, fasting is freaking awesome.



    Aaaand you just made up my mind
    Very interesting indeed. I wonder if the shorter IF has the same impact on leptin levels? I know it induces higher HGH and testosterone levels.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    The issue is that it is circular. If someone hasn't been diagnosed with celiac, they're told that they should not give up gluten. But the reason they have not been diagnosed may be that their doctor may be behind the times or incompetent, or that they are asymptomatic, or that the tests give high numbers of false negatives, or they are non-celiac gluten intolerant.

    I'm not saying there is an easy solution to a complex problem, just that hearing over and over again that you shouldn't give up gluten unless you know you are celiac is something people often hear that shortens lives.
    Ok, I'll grant you that - but undiagnosed Celiac patients and patients with asymptomatic gluten intolerance are in the minority here. Only one percent of Americans (300,000 people) have been diagnosed with the disease, so if we make a (massive) assumption that an additional 300,000 people have the disease and have not been diagnosed, then that's a 2% disease rate. I'm not sure that's worth a wholesale vilification of wheat. Saying things like, "wheat belly" and "this is you on cheese" are incendiary and, in my opinion, ineffective.

    fat-web.jpg

    What I want to see is moderation. The new FDA food plate makes me really happy. Yes, it says things like, "limit butter" and "avoid bacon" which will offend primal people. But in general it's really good advice for 98% of Americans. I mean, we primal people do avoid butter and bacon. That is, we avoid grain-fed, salted butter and bacon loaded with nitrites. We stick to CLA-rich, grass-fed, organic, unsalted butter and uncured bacon. Or we cut our own bacon. For the average fatso who's addicted to Land O' Lakes and Oscar Meyer microwave bacon, avoidance is excellent advice.

    Harvard-Plate1.jpg.
    Last edited by ajm422; 05-10-2013 at 12:16 PM.

  10. #70
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    I recently read about a study done by a grade school girl as her science project. Having been diagnosed with celiac, she wanted to know how common it was. She went to the local clinic where they agreed to offer 133 free blood tests to upcoming patients who had not been tested. They expected to find one positive. They found 4, and all of them were asymptomatic.

    I think you have a problem with digestion of fat. Perhaps you can handle certain types better than others. Maybe you need to limit your overall fat intake.

    Most Americans eat hardly any butter. They are not addicted to it. The average Canadian consumption of butter is 7ml per day. The average American eats bacon only 18 times a year.

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