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Thread: HCG, IF and Ketosis - the Unholy Trinity of Metabolic Downregulation page 4

  1. #31
    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck416 View Post
    I think the key is constant variety. I'm currently going through a month long VLC with Refeeds trial and doing lots of strength training with weights. After this I'll probably up the carbs considerably eating more vegetables and fruit during the summer and add in some long slow distance running/hiking and perhaps switch over to some Crossfit and MovNat training. Then spend a month or two just powerlifting and sprinting. I love the variety and it seems to keep me fresh and enthused.
    I agree. Much in life is cyclical. We discuss how eating the same foods day in and day out (probably not detrimental in just a month canuck ) can lead to a buildup of metabolites and even food specific toxins in the system. A perfect reason to either cycle your food source or eat a varied diet. I prefer to cycle. I really don't mind eating the same crock pot meal for about a week at a time. Same with exercise continuous stress of the same sort without a change may actually be detrimental. Thats where people invented things like periodization and deloads and such, but I'd just as soon do like you and take up a completely different activity set for a while.

    I do however agree with Omni's post in that you may have metabolic dysfunction at either end of the spectrum. That is, if you can't handle ketosis for a period of time without falling apart you very well may have some underlying issue. Same difference as the metabolic glucose dysfunction with higher carb just now its with your fat burning machinery or in context of the inability to adapt quickly to a necessary physiological shift.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 05-02-2013 at 12:46 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    Perhaps you could give us evidence of the thousands of people you claim you personally know who did Atkins and then followed up by deliberately integrating it with carb refeeds.
    Well said eKatherine. (P.S.: I wasn't one of them, and I've maintained my loss for over 3 years). Zach thinks what works for him works for everyone. Simply not true.
    Starting Weight: 197.5
    Current Weight: 123
    Far healthier!

  3. #33
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    I'm just annoyed when people make up numbers to support their pet theories and expect you to just accept them.

    I have no doubt that an Atkins dieter who stalled could indeed switch to a different WOE or cycle. But they don't. The Atkins people haven't heard of carb refeeds, nor have dieters in general.
    Last edited by eKatherine; 05-02-2013 at 02:56 PM.

  4. #34
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    I dont make up numbers. I have been researching diet and following people like Mark Sisson over 8 years. I have read so much on the subject in that time its incredible.

    Im not here to convince people like you who have closed their minds to other ways and apparently think they are getting good results with what they are doing... Just here to let people know that there are other opinions then the primal approved one. Surprisingly enough, many dont know this since the common advice is "Primals not working? PRIMAL HARDER!".

  5. #35
    janie's Avatar
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    I don't THINK I'm getting good results, Zach. I already got them. And I'm maintaining them too.

    And I've done plenty of research as well which is how I came to a primal low carb plan that works for me when NOTHING ELSE DID. You say that we have closed minds? I think your mind is closed to my and many other people's excellent results. They are results mind you, not theory, so don't dismiss them so easily.
    Starting Weight: 197.5
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    I dont make up numbers. I have been researching diet and following people like Mark Sisson over 8 years. I have read so much on the subject in that time its incredible.
    Declaration of authority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Im not here to convince people like you who have closed their minds to other ways and apparently think they are getting good results with what they are doing... Just here to let people know that there are other opinions then the primal approved one.
    Moral high ground positioning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Surprisingly enough, many dont know this since the common advice is "Primals not working? PRIMAL HARDER!".
    Trashing opposing view.

    Those statement's put yourself front and centre of closed mind philosophy.

  7. #37
    Omni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck416 View Post
    I think the key is constant variety. I'm currently going through a month long VLC with Refeeds trial and doing lots of strength training with weights. After this I'll probably up the carbs considerably eating more vegetables and fruit during the summer and add in some long slow distance running/hiking and perhaps switch over to some Crossfit and MovNat training. Then spend a month or two just powerlifting and sprinting. I love the variety and it seems to keep me fresh and enthused.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I agree. Much in life is cyclical. We discuss how eating the same foods day in and day out (probably not detrimental in just a month canuck ) can lead to a buildup of metabolites and even food specific toxins in the system. A perfect reason to either cycle your food source or eat a varied diet. I prefer to cycle. I really don't mind eating the same crock pot meal for about a week at a time. Same with exercise continuous stress of the same sort without a change may actually be detrimental. Thats where people invented things like periodization and deloads and such, but I'd just as soon do like you and take up a completely different activity set for a while.

    I do however agree with Omni's post in that you may have metabolic dysfunction at either end of the spectrum. That is, if you can't handle ketosis for a period of time without falling apart you very well may have some underlying issue. Same difference as the metabolic glucose dysfunction with higher carb just now its with your fat burning machinery or in context of the inability to adapt quickly to a necessary physiological shift.
    This is where I think it is flexibility and adaptability to changing conditions and environment, eating with the seasons.
    Spending a month feasting on meat, fat & marrow, like our ancesters would after some big kills.
    Fasting for a week with nothing but water and the odd berry, green or measly tuber whilst trecking to greener pastures.
    Dodging the bears to get our fair share of the fat salmon running up river.
    Gorging on fruits and nuts for weeks on end in late summer, and putting on some weight in preparation for the long winter.

    Meat and fat was always the preffered food, but was not always available, just like honey easy to gorge on but hard to get, so this should always be kept in mind, there should be times of plenty and times of scarcity.
    Just because some foods were relegated to times of scarcity doesn't mean they weren't good for us and likewise just because we have times of plenty doesn't mean this is the healthiest way to eat all the time.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Yes because opinions of thousands means nothing if there isnt a study to back it up, right. You cannot ignore the massive amount of people eating VLC having metabolic issues after a few solid months.
    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    I don't THINK I'm getting good results, Zach. I already got them. And I'm maintaining them too.

    And I've done plenty of research as well which is how I came to a primal low carb plan that works for me when NOTHING ELSE DID. You say that we have closed minds? I think your mind is closed to my and many other people's excellent results. They are results mind you, not theory, so don't dismiss them so easily.
    I realized today that I've lost 72 pounds. Really. What.ever.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Its so funny when people say that "people thrive on ketosis". Can you please give me some examples of people thriving on full time ketosis?
    Me. 65 lbs gone and staying gone. Climbed Mt Kilimangaro on VLC. Seizure free on 25% less medication.

    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    I'm just annoyed when people make up numbers to support their pet theories and expect you to just accept them.
    85% of all statistics are made up on the spot. Didn't you know that?

    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    I don't THINK I'm getting good results, Zach. I already got them. And I'm maintaining them too.

    And I've done plenty of research as well which is how I came to a primal low carb plan that works for me when NOTHING ELSE DID. You say that we have closed minds? I think your mind is closed to my and many other people's excellent results. They are results mind you, not theory, so don't dismiss them so easily.
    This. Yes, there are the "Why isn't this working for me?" threads. Reading a few of those=/=doing research into the subject. Those of us for whom it did work and continues to work are not writing posts about it. We are too busy climbing mountains.

  10. #40
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    Eight pounds lost already, major depressive and hypomanic episodes are gone. Ahem.

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