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Thread: HCG, IF and Ketosis - the Unholy Trinity of Metabolic Downregulation page 2

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    You are misreading what she wrote and what I wrote.

    She does not counsel successful dieters of any sort. They have all failed at dieting. They have given up on dieting and gone to her in desperation.

    Her "successful" group contains her clients who have readily moved from the dieting metabolism and mentality into a healthy way of eating.
    My comment was not directed at you. Its simple fact that long term ketosis will lead to a lowered metabolism. There is a reason there have been almost zero successful long term ketosis dieters. It does not work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarissaLinnea View Post
    The whole article sounds like opinions and not facts.
    If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck chances are........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck chances are........
    Yes because opinions of thousands means nothing if there isnt a study to back it up, right. You cannot ignore the massive amount of people eating VLC having metabolic issues after a few solid months.

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    They have done studies on Atkins. They haven't found what your anecdotal conjecture tells you from your reading of dozens of complaint threads over the years that involve many different variables. But YMMV. I'm sure following your n=1 you will someday achieve perfection of body, mind, and spirit.

    The plural of anecdote is not data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliphian View Post
    She keeps referring to "women" specifically. That's odd.
    I think it's because most (all?) of her clients are women. And, let's face it, when it comes to weight loss, men and women are not exactly the same. This is probably because our endocrine systems are not the same, and metabolic regulation is mostly mediated by hormones. So what works well for men may not work well for women.

    I think the jury is still out on whether long fasts are beneficial to women.
    Last edited by diene; 05-01-2013 at 10:21 AM. Reason: typo

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Yes because opinions of thousands means nothing if there isnt a study to back it up, right. You cannot ignore the massive amount of people eating VLC having metabolic issues after a few solid months.
    A couple things. I'm responding directly to the article, which lumps three lifestyle choices involving nutrition into a single group and makes a claim. It's simplistic at best. For instance zach... can you assure me that people who do high carb, practice IF fall into this unholy trinity? I think the kitavins are a fine representation here. The rely predominantly on 1-2 large meals a day and don't snack even though their carb levels are on the high end. I just don't get it. Actually I kinda do, but that would just make for more theorizing and metabolic mud slinging (I think it has to do with insulin ). I'll admit I don't know enough about HCG to have an opinion. It has not interested me as I would think things have to be rather extreme to consider such a course. As for VLC..... the author is a high carb advocate training as a powerlifter and cites other high intensity athletes as sources.... meh, I don't actually think VLC is great for frequent glycolytic bouts myself. As for the "thousands" having issue I think the coorelation and causation bit has something to say. That and I've seen many people (usually those adopting it to reduce seizure or diabetic concerns) doing quite well. It's all quite individual to your goals and circumstances. It very well may be that her clients tend to be a complete wreck that just need to get healthy nutritious foods without worrying about calories for several months. Thats a subset of the population that will likely benefit from her approach. Other subsets.... not so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serenity View Post
    I think it's because most (all?) of her clients are women. And, let's face it, when it comes to weight loss, men and women are not exactly the same. This is probably because our endocrine systems are not the same, and metabolic regulation is mostly mediated by hormones. So what works well for me may not work well for women.
    It's also true that women are socialized from their early teens to believe that it is necessary to be unnaturally thin, and that perpeptual dieting is the solution. Being on a diet may change one's metabolism, but even more it can result in psychological and emotional issues and disordered eating habits.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    They have done studies on Atkins. They haven't found what your anecdotal conjecture tells you from your reading of dozens of complaint threads over the years that involve many different variables. But YMMV. I'm sure following your n=1 you will someday achieve perfection of body, mind, and spirit.
    Hey, believe what you want. There are no shortage of failures on ketosis diets, from the random forumer to the biggest names in paleo.

    And its thousands of complaints, not dozens. As for myself, im as happy and healthy as ever. Hope you can say the same!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    A couple things. I'm responding directly to the article, which lumps three lifestyle choices involving nutrition into a single group and makes a claim. It's simplistic at best. For instance zach... can you assure me that people who do high carb, practice IF fall into this unholy trinity? I think the kitavins are a fine representation here. The rely predominantly on 1-2 large meals a day and don't snack even though their carb levels are on the high end. I just don't get it. Actually I kinda do, but that would just make for more theorizing and metabolic mud slinging (I think it has to do with insulin ). I'll admit I don't know enough about HCG to have an opinion. It has not interested me as I would think things have to be rather extreme to consider such a course. As for VLC..... the author is a high carb advocate training as a powerlifter and cites other high intensity athletes as sources.... meh, I don't actually think VLC is great for frequent glycolytic bouts myself. As for the "thousands" having issue I think the coorelation and causation bit has something to say. That and I've seen many people (usually those adopting it to reduce seizure or diabetic concerns) doing quite well. It's all quite individual to your goals and circumstances. It very well may be that her clients tend to be a complete wreck that just need to get healthy nutritious foods without worrying about calories for several months. Thats a subset of the population that will likely benefit from her approach. Other subsets.... not so much.
    I already responded to the IF above but no, it would seem that a low fat, high carb diet does not produce the same metabolic lowering effects as the opposite or from IF. Most likely this is from keeping thyroid output high and lack of stress hormones. Even something as extreme as the potato diet seems safe, although that has to be kept ahort for other reasons.

    I agree that everyones case is individual and i dont blame all problems on lack of carbs. But even you cant disagree with the amount of problems people have with longterm ketosis with zero refeeds. Sure there will be problems with not enough calories, too much protein and or pUFA. But the common theme is carbs or lack there of.
    Last edited by Zach; 05-01-2013 at 10:48 AM.

  10. #20
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    it would seem that a low fat, high carb diet does not produce the same metabolic lowering effects as the opposite
    I disagree. I think that the most common diet in the US is low fat, high carb, lots of cardio and there are enough fat women running every day and eating low fat, low calorie diets to prove that lowers your metabolism too.

    I think the reality is that FAT loss is slow, and no amount of starving yourself be it through ketosis or low fat is going to make it faster. The only solution is eating a generally healthy diet and being patient.

    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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