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Thread: HCG, IF and Ketosis - the Unholy Trinity of Metabolic Downregulation page 16

  1. #151
    Knifegill's Avatar
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    Yes, I was eating strict SAD. Almost no meat or vegetables.


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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    Yes, I was eating strict SAD. Almost no meat or vegetables.
    Probably no fruit either!
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    A throw-away comment from Matt Stone actually put it all in context me for. He said that while low carb diets do raise stress hormones, some people actually need to have these hormones raised.

    This could explain why some people thrive low carb, and for other people it's a disaster for their sleep, skin, mentality. It makes sense in my case: I'm already a stressed person: additional stress from gluconeogenesis sent me over the edge.
    A throw away comment is just that, in the trash.
    If the rationale works for you, great, but that doesn't make it fact, I haven't yet seen any credible evidence to that effect.

    It is true that some do not do well on low carb, but it does not appear that the diet is at fault, it is the underlying poor health of the individual before starting low carb.
    Mind you I am not advocating for low carb, each to their own, but I also don't like to see falsehoods being reinforced.
    Last edited by Omni; 05-14-2013 at 03:31 AM.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    A throw away comment is just that, in the trash.
    If the rationale works for you, great, but that doesn't make it fact, I haven't yet seen any credible evidence to that effect.

    It is true that some do not do well on low carb, but it does not appear that the diet is at fault, it is the underlying poor health of the individual before starting low carb.
    Mind you I am not advocating for low carb, each to their own, but I also don't like to see falsehoods being reinforced.
    But what about all the literature that states that gluconeogenesis is stressful for the organism? Or that high protein meals release more cortisol? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6630409

    I'm not saying the stress is going to kill you or make you sick - some stress is good. All Stone was saying was that raising stress hormones might actually be beneficial for some people, which is why some people do well on low carb diets.

    A lot of people come to low carb in poor health and it helps them. It's not just sick people who do badly on it. The underlying health issues have to be compatible with the chemistry of a particular food plan. Many illness begin in the endocrine system.

    Anyhoo, I agree with you in essence
    Last edited by YogaBare; 05-14-2013 at 04:58 AM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  5. #155
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    If high protein meals raise cortisol, does this mean that people can get moon facies?

    Is there a higher incidence of moon facies with Paleo eating?

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    There is no doubt that some individuals do not perform as well as others on a low carb diet, but that does not make the diet unhealthy...
    And yet over and over again I have seen this on so many sites given as a reason why everyone should eat a high carb diet.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    But what about all the literature that states that gluconeogenesis is stressful for the organism? Or that high protein meals release more cortisol? Pituitary hormone release in respons... [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1983] - PubMed - NCBI

    I'm not saying the stress is going to kill you or make you sick - some stress is good. All Stone was saying was that raising stress hormones might actually be beneficial for some people, which is why some people do well on low carb diets.

    A lot of people come to low carb in poor health and it helps them. It's not just sick people who do badly on it. The underlying health issues have to be compatible with the chemistry of a particular food plan. Many illness begin in the endocrine system.

    Anyhoo, I agree with you in essence
    I do understand what you are saying, and that some individuals may have disrupted hormonal cycles and certain conditions may shift that balance further into the negative realm, but that doesn't justify the simplistic conclusions that health bloggers sometimes make.

    I think one needs to make the distinction between high cortisol and stress, high cortisol may be present in individuals under high stress, but it is not the only physiological change under those conditions. The elevated cortisol levels seen in meal responses elicits completely different responses, very simply designed to manage the process of digesting different Macro's, it obviously would be counter productive to release cortisol which stimulates release of fatty acids after a carbohydrate meal, this would become a toxic situation, so the study just indicates a logical response from the body with different macro's.

    It is extremely simplistic, and irresponsible in my eyes to simply say elevated cortisol = elevated stress, there is no evidence that individuals with a meal induced elevated cortisol show any signs of stress whatsoever, do they have dilated pupils, reduced peripheral circulation, digestive function stopped to conserve blood supply to fight or flee, no in actuality they are quite comfortable and relaxed happily digesting.

    I haven't really read much of Stone's writing's, but certainly seen a lot of critique of it which suggests to me he's painted himself into a bit of a corner with his position and there's no guard rail behind him.

    So I am very wary of simplistic relationships in hormonal responses, there's much more to all of them and it is the activity of the entire orchestra not just one musician that defines the tune.
    Last edited by Omni; 05-14-2013 at 09:31 PM.

  8. #158
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    [QUOTE=eKatherine;1177750]First of all, almost every serious dieter out there has tried Atkins, which is based on ketosis. I bet her "successful" majority had done it as much as her fail group.

    And intermittent fasting is so new to the diet scene that hardly any conventional dieters have even heard of it yet. It's hard to believe that any of them have been doing it for years.




    I can believe that HCG and the diet required can screw a metabolism up. I think she's got that part right.[/


    Hygienists have long put forth the benefits of fasting and Intermittent fasting has been around for years. Experiments with rats were done from 2003.

  9. #159
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    Turquoisepassion:
    Knifegill is christened to be high carb now!
    notontherug:
    the buttstuff...never interested.
    He gives me Lamprey Kisses in the midnight sea
    Flubby tubby gums latching onto me
    For all that I've done wrong, I mastodon something right...

    My pony picture thread http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82786.html

  10. #160
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    Hygienists have long put forth the benefits of fasting and Intermittent fasting has been around for years. Experiments with rats were done from 2003.
    Going for 16-18 hrs a day without food was a rather normal practice for humans throughout the history, where the heavy manual labor was not involved. Providing sedentary modern lifestyle (despite that tiny amount of structured workouts we squeeze in, I mean 1-2 hrs a day), IF rather than endless fueling up is more logical.

    Unfortunately, knowing it doesn't make me more successful at it as a practice.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
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