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Thread: HCG, IF and Ketosis - the Unholy Trinity of Metabolic Downregulation page 15

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    Also, Ray Peat has been offering this "alternate" perspective for years now. Anyone can go find out what he has to say anytime they want.
    The thing is: people frequently joke about how loosely this forum is moderated. I'm willing to bet that this is an intentional move by Mark. I'm sure he knows that conflict gives birth to new ideas. He's a smart man, and a nice person to boot. Thought policing just leads to totalitarianism.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    The thing is: people frequently joke about how loosely this forum is moderated. I'm willing to bet that this is an intentional move by Mark. I'm sure he knows that conflict gives birth to new ideas. He's a smart man, and a nice person to boot. Thought policing just leads to totalitarianism.
    Yup. I stopped visiting paleo hacks completely due to over moderation. Too much my way or the highway mentality for me. I'm open to people saying just about anything they want. Doesn't mean I agree mind you, but I think the option to say what you want is important.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    The thing is: people frequently joke about how loosely this forum is moderated. I'm willing to bet that this is an intentional move by Mark. I'm sure he knows that conflict gives birth to new ideas. He's a smart man, and a nice person to boot. Thought policing just leads to totalitarianism.
    Actually, totalitarianism is the result of living in a monotheistic culture:
    Comparison: Polytheism is much better than Monotheism

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    The thing is: people frequently joke about how loosely this forum is moderated. I'm willing to bet that this is an intentional move by Mark. I'm sure he knows that conflict gives birth to new ideas. He's a smart man, and a nice person to boot. Thought policing just leads to totalitarianism.
    I actually agree with this for the most part. If you want to post alternative views here then fine, do so. I'm jut pointing out that if Zach and Derp are your only sources, you're not trying hard enough.

    Reading alternate perspectives, even if you don't always agree, is important. And Peat is a very good writer, if a bit odd.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Pb, what mountain did you climb.
    Kilimangaro. 19,344 feet. Trying doing that on two packs a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by canuck416 View Post
    This was posted in another thread but it was a fascinating experiment. Worth a read in the context of this discussion.

    Two Brave Men Who Ate Nothing But Meat for an Entire Year

    A new term I learned today is Keto-adapted. Apparently if you have been eating a VLC mostly meat diet for an extended period you becom Keto-adapted and your urinalysis would not indicate any ketone bodies because the body would be maintaining homeostatis, using ketones for fuel and not overproducing them. Apparently meat-only eating, keto-adapted humans will be utilizing ketones for fuel in their body (ie, be in ketosis medically speaking) but urinalysis will not show excess ketone bodies.
    True, the ketones would show in a blood analysis but not in the urine. This is why a lot of people using ketostix after a while start to think that it has "stopped working" when really the body is just metabolizing the ketones very efficiently.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    You speak like someone with blinders on. It's one way or no way, right!?

    Not really. We're omnivores, designed to be able to digest and put to use a plethora of different food groups. You eat 99.5% fat because you're otherwise a sick person, are you not? Though I may or may not agree with your choice of methods, if he were healthy, he'd be able to eat carbs just fine like everyone else. Ratios can vary here, not asking him to eat like me, I know the thresholds for tolerance are different.

    But, of course, he feels soooo good on VLC, let's just ignore the other symptoms, despite it really being an abnormal(and for all evidence, and purposes, not primal) way of eating in the first place.

    To end it though, it's his choice to eat how he wants, just like it's my choice to smoke 2 packs of cigarettes a day and drink like a fish over losing a hockey game. Free will and all that. So, I respect his choice to make use of whatever time he has on this planet in whatever way he wants. If he just happens to be addicted to eating fat, then more power to him. I hate people who tread on this, I'm just keeping it real and telling it how it is. It's not healthy, and these posts are designed to bring that to light for anyone else attempting this fad diet for the sake of weight loss and just happen to feel miserable. It's not for everyone, and it's not abnormal that you feel bad.
    Not specifically to Derp, but I've seen the "Keeping it real" comment a few times from the Sugar advocates.

    Firstly that last bolded comment indicates clearly that you've still got your blinkers on and tightly focussed on your reality and secondly and most importantly a vast number of comments from the pro sugar individuals that I've seen present unsaubstantiated hypothesis as fact and only when called out and pressed does the truth finally come out that there in actuality there was no basis for the comment and it was just a vague musing, this is a real danger for the unititiated, potentially creating misleading and false perceptions.

    If you want to position yourself in the "Keeping it Real" paradigm, then you're comments should be reserved to straight facts or at least preceded by the disclaimer that it is your opinion.

    There is no doubt that some individuals do not perform as well as others on a low carb diet, but that does not make the diet unhealthy, it just means other factors are likely contributing to the individuals ill health, just as you've noted with knifegill in his issues with carb consumption and I agree the ultimate goal is to achieve healing such that one is capable of metabolising carbohydrate effectively. There is the flip side of that coin though, that the pro sugar advocates conveniently ignore, that most of those who don't do well on a low carb diet also have metabolic dysfunction that should also be addressed if possible rather than just hiding it away with a high carb intake. There may well be some that may well have a genetic dysfunction and their only choice is to do what they can and eat higher carb, but the majority of situations I have read about indicate a long history of innappropriate diet behaviours and multiple dysfunctions in their metabolism, not really too hard to predict that they may not do well on low carb, but that really hasn't got anything to do with low carb diet per say.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiercehunter View Post
    Actually, totalitarianism is the result of living in a monotheistic culture:
    Comparison: Polytheism is much better than Monotheism
    i'm a Monist myself.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    There is no doubt that some individuals do not perform as well as others on a low carb diet, but that does not make the diet unhealthy.
    A throw-away comment from Matt Stone actually put it all in context me for. He said that while low carb diets do raise stress hormones, some people actually need to have these hormones raised.

    This could explain why some people thrive low carb, and for other people it's a disaster for their sleep, skin, mentality. It makes sense in my case: I'm already a stressed person: additional stress from gluconeogenesis sent me over the edge.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  9. #149
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    I don't know, I'm madder than a hatter and jump higher on a couch than Tom Cruise. People have no idea how much happy, vibrant, insane energy I spend on bottling itself in. High-fat low-carb prevents what I used to get, which was manic swings as high as I am now and then lows below suicide, where I relied on enhanced laziness to avoid jumping off a bridge to end the misery. Here on high-fat/moderate to high-protein, my swing ropes are tied short and I cannot swing low. I spend pretty much all day every day on a slight manic high, only crashing as I fall asleep.

    Then again, I also grew up, stopped being a homeless drunk, got married, bought a house and have a baby on the way. Still, when I ate crappy for a bit awhile ago over a year ago, I got pretty depressed again. So it's not all situational, lots of it is chemistry.


    Turquoisepassion:
    Knifegill is christened to be high carb now!
    notontherug:
    the buttstuff...never interested.
    He gives me Lamprey Kisses in the midnight sea
    Flubby tubby gums latching onto me
    For all that I've done wrong, I mastodon something right...

    My pony picture thread http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82786.html

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    I don't know, I'm madder than a hatter and jump higher on a couch than Tom Cruise. People have no idea how much happy, vibrant, insane energy I spend on bottling itself in. High-fat low-carb prevents what I used to get, which was manic swings as high as I am now and then lows below suicide, where I relied on enhanced laziness to avoid jumping off a bridge to end the misery. Here on high-fat/moderate to high-protein, my swing ropes are tied short and I cannot swing low. I spend pretty much all day every day on a slight manic high, only crashing as I fall asleep.

    Then again, I also grew up, stopped being a homeless drunk, got married, bought a house and have a baby on the way. Still, when I ate crappy for a bit awhile ago over a year ago, I got pretty depressed again. So it's not all situational, lots of it is chemistry.
    I'm not a endrochronologist, but possibly you previously had some hormone that was low that contributed to your lows. Bottomed out stress hormones aren't a good thing either.

    But you had a terrible diet prior to Primal, right? Eating junk day-in, day-out is going to fuck you up royally. I think we're all in agreement about that. Macros are a separate issue.

    It's all chemistry: your response to situations influences your chemistry.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

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