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Thread: Jumping OFF the Starting Strength bandwagon! page 4

  1. #31
    Coach Palfrey's Avatar
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    This thread has done nothing but confuse a whole load of people who were considering doing Starting Strength.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Palfrey View Post
    This thread has done nothing but confuse a whole load of people who were considering doing Starting Strength.
    You shouldn't be surprised. Gorbag is a troll whose only purpose in being here is to misinform people and confuse them.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneDeltaTenTango View Post
    There is a great opportunity in the thread to move off of black and white and into advice that a novice lifter (me) can use. "if you start to notice X happening, then pay attention. You might consider doing more of Y and less of Z"
    These questions are answered for anyone bothering to do some research when doing The Program. Most failures and mistakes, when it comes to SS come from people not even knowing what the program really is. Who here has done SS? Out of those people, who has read the SS book? Who has recorded their lifts and checked for form? Who even knows exactly what proper form is?

    Too many people just Google "Rippetoe" or "Starting Strength", pull out the basic template, start doing it, and think they're following the program. Then you get a bunch of unfounded half-assed arguments like SS is about getting fat, or that everyone should do GOMAD, or that you can do it forever, or what a low-bar squat even is, i.e. symptoms of profound ignorance and lack of research on the routine and what it entails, and why.

    Gorbag is on a crusade to interject nit-picked strawman arguments into every thread that has the words Rippetoe, barbell, or Starting Strength. I still don't know what his point is. I don't think he knows either.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Palfrey View Post
    This thread has done nothing but confuse a whole load of people who were considering doing Starting Strength.
    I would hope that a person's decision to follow Starting Strength would not be based on a post on the MDA forum with a picture of a crashed locomotive.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneDeltaTenTango View Post
    Sure. But that doesn't mean people haven't killed themselves by doing some of the above.

    The question back to the OP: what guidance would you give someone who is crossing that bridge from novice to intermediate and when? What are the warning signs that the locomotive is going to go through the wall soon? Obviously for the crashing locomotive, the advice is jump off, but I suspect the advice for someone advancing through sS progression is something more nuanced than drop the barbells and do some pushups.

    There is a great opportunity in the thread to move off of black and white and into advice that a novice lifter (me) can use. "if you start to notice X happening, then pay attention. You might consider doing more of Y and less of Z"
    It's a good question since there will be an increased risk and less reward while riding the bandwagon, and who are better to answer it than the followers of Rippetoes system, let’s hear from them when the optimal time is to jump off? Generally I can say that the Starting Strength followers are torn between two inherently contradictions in the system; one is keeping a good form in the lifts – and the other is aggressively progress from session to session by loading more and more weights on the barbell. So when the lifters are struggling to keep a good form in the lifts he is also instructed and tempted to go overboard by overloading the barbell – and sooner or later the DISASTER will happen, usually when form is neglected or breaks down, if not backing out in time…
    Last edited by Gorbag; 04-30-2013 at 03:53 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    These questions are answered for anyone bothering to do some research when doing The Program. Most failures and mistakes, when it comes to SS come from people not even knowing what the program really is. Who here has done SS? Out of those people, who has read the SS book? Who has recorded their lifts and checked for form? Who even knows exactly what proper form is?

    Too many people just Google "Rippetoe" or "Starting Strength", pull out the basic template, start doing it, and think they're following the program. Then you get a bunch of unfounded half-assed arguments like SS is about getting fat, or that everyone should do GOMAD, or that you can do it forever, or what a low-bar squat even is, i.e. symptoms of profound ignorance and lack of research on the routine and what it entails, and why.

    Gorbag is on a crusade to interject nit-picked strawman arguments into every thread that has the words Rippetoe, barbell, or Starting Strength. I still don't know what his point is. I don't think he knows either.
    I have the book, have read it, have re-read parts of it, have started lifting, working with a form coach (some of whose training was by Ripptoe himself) . And at 54 I am not at all interested in pushing my body too far, too fast and into injury. Sbhikes notes earlier in the thread that the SS forum is full of people king questions about injuries. Now I am not that worried about myself in the near term as I am more motivated to focus on form than see progressive lifting gains, but trust that there will come a time when the Newby gains taper off and when the kinds of issues that gorbag alludes to (but hasn't defined or clearly articulated) may begin appear. What are early warning signs, if any? What are preemptive strategies if needed?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    This tread is about getting OFF the SS bandwagon in right time quikky, and not ride it too far...
    That's a fair caution.

    The problem is most people don't know when to stop. If the goal is to continue to increase the weight, when do the weight increases end? For most people the answer is -- when they get injured.

    Same with chronic-cardio, people don't know when to stop.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    You shouldn't be surprised. Gorbag is a troll whose only purpose in being here is to misinform people and confuse them.
    Thank you for that! And that comes from a poster that swear that she can gain weight in a calorie deficit - and below 800 calories per day...

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    It's a good question since there will be an increased risk and less reward while riding the bandwagon, and who are better to answer it than the followers of Rippetoes system, let’s hear from them when the optimal time is to jump off? Generally I can say that the Starting Strength followers are torn between two inherently contradictions in the system; one is keeping a good form in the lifts – and the other is aggressively progress from session to session by loading more and more weights on the barbell. So when the lifters are struggling to keep a good form in the lifts he is also instructed and tempted to go overboard by overloading the barbell – and sooner or later the DISASTER will happen, usually when form is neglected or breaks down, if not backing out in time…
    Does Rippetoe recommend someone add weight to their deadlift if they can't keep proper lumbar extension? Does Rippetoe recommend someone squat more, if they can't squat with good form? Do you even know what Starting Strength is about, except for the fact that it is with barbells?

    Countless people have followed Starting Strength and ended up much stronger without DISASTER. Injuries do happen, just like in every sport. If you want 100% guarantee of painless injury free existence, stay in bed.

    Your point is just another strawman.

  10. #40
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    When to stop barbell training? When you reach your goals.

    How do you know what the "warning signs" are? Common sense.

    Is your form good? Follow the program. Is your form bad? Fix it (you've read the book, right?), and use less weight to ingrain proper form if you have to. Something hurting? Figure out why and use your brain on how to proceed.

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