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Thread: Lets get serious about body fat - 4 weeks Steak and eggs page 59

  1. #581
    ajm422's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck416 View Post
    Here is a link to a very good research white paper on the effect of low carbohydrate diets on fat loss that I am sure you will all find interesting.

    Low-Carbohydrate Diets
    Promote a More
    Favorable Body
    Composition Than
    Low-Fat Diets
    Jeff S. Volek, PhD, RD, Erin E. Quann, PhD, RD, and Cassandra E. Forsythe, PhD, RD
    Department of Kinesiology, University of Connecticut, Storrs, Connecticut

    http://www.nmsociety.org/docs/LowCar...rable-body.pdf
    This has been shown to be true on a 12-week or so program, but the effects vanish once you carry it out a few months. Long-term calorie balance is responsible for > 95% of all fat loss changes. But if this helps adherence and health, then great.

  2. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajm422 View Post
    This has been shown to be true on a 12-week or so program, but the effects vanish once you carry it out a few months. Long-term calorie balance is responsible for > 95% of all fat loss changes. But if this helps adherence and health, then great.
    Interesting, I am not aware of any long term comparison studies between low carb and low fat diets on body composition. Can you provide a link...Thanks!

    I thought the section on the importance of resistance training during the diet was important to note as it relates to our trial.
    Last edited by canuck416; 05-14-2013 at 08:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck416 View Post
    Interesting, I am not aware of any long term comparison studies between low carb and low fat diets on body composition. Can you provide a link...Thanks!

    I thought the section on the importance of resistance training during the diet was important to note as it relates to our trial.
    Indeed, in the very least this paper makes what we are doing look like an ideal crash diet.

  4. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck416 View Post
    Interesting, I am not aware of any long term comparison studies between low carb and low fat diets on body composition. Can you provide a link...Thanks!
    Hm. I actually may have to walk that statement back. An interesting review on the topic came out very recently and I hadn't seen it until I posted this. Here it is:

    Very-low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet v. low-fat diet for long-term weight loss: a meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials

    You can read it for yourself, but they basically found that five of 13 studies found results that significantly favor VLCKD over LFD in terms of body weight and all the other usual suspects (BP, TAGs, LDL:HDL, etc). Interesting. Five of 13 isn't a spectacular endorsement, but it's something. I'll have to dig into the review when I have more time.

    Long-term effects of a very-low-carbohydrate weight loss diet compared with an isocaloric low-fat diet after 12 mo

    This study found that, after one year, LC dieters lost slightly, but not significantly more weight than LF dieters. Also, "[b]lood pressure, fasting glucose, insulin, insulin resistance, and C-reactive protein decreased independently of diet composition. Compared with the LF group, the LC group had greater decreases in triglycerides ..., increases in HDL cholesterol ... and LDL cholesterol. This is the study I was thinking of when I made the above statement. Based on this evidence alone, I would stand by that statement.

    Four-Year Follow-up after Two-Year Dietary Interventions

    Choice quotes:

    "At 2 years, the adherence rate was 85%, with evidence of distinct dietary patterns in the three diet groups. After 2 years,1 the mean weight loss was 2.9 kg in the low-fat group, 4.4 kg in the Mediterranean group, and 4.7 kg in the low-carbohydrate group."

    For the entire 6-year period, the total weight loss was 0.6 kg in the low-fat group, 3.1 kg in the Mediterranean group, and 1.7 kg in the low-carbohydrate group (P=0.01 for all comparisons). There was a significant difference in total weight loss between the low-fat group and the Mediterranean group (P=0.01) but not between the low-fat group and the low-carbohydrate group (P=0.44) or between the Mediterranean group and the low-carbohydrate group (P=0.22). Overall, as compared with the weight at baseline, the 6-year weight loss was significant for the Mediterranean group (P<0.001) and the low-carbohydrate group (P=0.02) but not for the low-fat group (P=0.28).

    The gist of the study is that the Mediterranean (Med) and Low carb (LC) diets are about equivalent in terms of weight loss, LDL:HDL ratio, triglycerides, and total cholesterol. Both are better than Low fat (LF) for all four parameters, though not miles better than Med and LC for weight loss.

    With respect to the top review, a quick keyword search through the manuscript didn't turn up any incidences of "isocaloric" or "isoenergetic," etc. I don't know how diligent the reviewers were in ensuring that the included studies controlled for overall energy intake and not just macronutrient makeup. It'll be interesting to see what I find.

    Summary

    The Brinkworth et. al paper was included in the Cambridge review, whereas the NEJM Four-Year paper was not. Taking these two works together, it would seem that a low carbohydrate diet is moderately better for long-term weight loss, and definitely better for long-term health markers like blood pressure, LDL:HDL, total cholesterol, triglycerides, etc. I'll dig into the review this evening and report back.

    It should be said that this is true for sedentary, overweight individuals losing weight. As far as I know, there was no intervention in terms of exercise. This was diet, and diet alone. Though it is safe to assume that either resistance training or cardiovascular exercise would benefit both groups equally, or perhaps even benefit the low fat groups slightly more.
    Last edited by ajm422; 05-14-2013 at 09:02 AM.

  5. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    Indeed, in the very least this paper makes what we are doing look like an ideal crash diet.
    From that article:

    "However, subjects who made only dietary changes had a fat loss of 69% of total weight loss, whereas subjects who added endurance training had a fat loss of 78% of weight loss, and subjects who also added resistance training lost almost exclusively fat (97% of weight loss)."

    That's so awesome.

  6. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    It may take a few days to drop off that excess glycogen, fiber, and maybe water you picked up from a refeed.

    I found that during week 1 I was eating too many calories (I'm obviously not a young guy) so now I keep track to make sure that doesn't happen. Now I feel better, then I felt like I was stuffing myself daily.

    If your body is ready to build muscle, it will do that preferentially when you are giving it excess protein. I've found that happens in spurts.

    Hang in there.
    Today was my refeed so I don't think that is the reason, and neither am I eating too much - at least I don't think I am. No more than 2100-2200 calls a day.

    H well, I'll see what happens during week 2!

  7. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by CavemanJoe View Post
    Today was my refeed so I don't think that is the reason, and neither am I eating too much - at least I don't think I am. No more than 2100-2200 calls a day.

    H well, I'll see what happens during week 2!
    You had two refeeds. According to you journal thread you had pizza on Saturday.

    Also you aren't eating beef steaks so who knows how that will change results.

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    Fair enough, but the slices were absolutely tiny, no more than 25g carbs altogether.

  9. #589
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    Lunch was a chopped sirloin burger. I was out for the day so had it alone with no eggs, and I'm really hungry now. Dinner is going to be marinated sirloin tips and a caramelized onion omelet with lots of butter.

  10. #590
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    41 yo female looking to lose last 5-8lbs...long time lurker...gastro issues led me to SCD diet about 3mos ago then transitioned to Lyle Keto and then found PB and haven't looked back...been primal about 2 months and saw this thread and was interested in taking chanllenge to see if it could budge my weight which has not change at all since starting keto thenPB....I gain and lose the same lb over and over...I've be IF with a 16/8 pattern

    Started S&E last Tuesday and for the first time ever I had that euphoric feeling and wasnt a slave to my hunger/voracious appetite...I finally had that feeling that people always write about not feeling hungry and being able to go hours without thinking about food...it was so wonderful an lliberating....and I dropped 2lbs in 4 days and was finally able to do a 20/4 fasting window. I was thrilled then Mother's Day weekend came...had 2 family commitments sat night and sunday...made it through saturday nnight dinner...filet mignon and sweetbreads, 1/4c half and half and a few asparagus...the next day had to have family brunch so figured I would just do a 16/8 window and go back to my 20/4 on monday...had sausage omlette and bacon, half and half, and brought a gf strip steak to cook for dinner...unfortunately also ate about a cup of pistacios and a half an avocado...still not terrible considering but the next day, i was insatiatiable...made it to 20 hours but ate 10 eggs, 12 oz ribeye, 3-4TB butter, 2 oz cheese, 2 hotdogs 1/4c cream and could have gone on...especially the butter.....

    Tryng to get back on track today but I wonder if anyone else experiences this type of insatiableness...I had it before but thought zero or vvvlc was my answer...wondering if the asparagus or the pistacios put me over...also do I have to do the carb up? I really want to get this back under control as a binge like this is counter to my goals....i tried all my usual tricks...water, leaving the kitchen, tea, etc but I just couldnt get satiated...

    sorry for the long post./typos..any thoughts are greatly appreciated...generally need to stay below 1100/1200C to lose...70/30 p/f

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