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Thread: I don't want to use barbells but I want to get strong. page 5

  1. #41
    iniQuity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears View Post
    I have my definition of strength, and after reading through the rippetoe thread I won't open that can of worms again. We aren't discussing the same definitions.

    I know we can do this dance all day, so let's just put the question out there: would you consider a person that can do one-arm chin ups (with less fingers even, like many climbers can) strong? if your answer is yes would you still say that's just "intermediate-level" strength?


    I would say they have advanced grip strength, and are strong for their bodyweight. Could they pull 3x bodyweight off the ground with their advanced grip strength? Unlikely, if they only trained bodyweight. They haven't had the progressive overload to reach that level. Could someone who is lean (key here) and can deadlift 3x bodyweight raw (no straps) perform a one-arm chin up? Very likely. Their grip strength is likely at a similar level, and their OVERALL strength is much better.
    I think the main problem when it comes to these discussions is one side is willing to say that a person with a good deadlift is strong, but the other side thinks a one-finger, one-arm pull up is impressive grip strength only. They'll do anything to discredit any accomplishment not centered around a bar.

    This is why we can't have nice things.
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  2. #42
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    1. Pick a program you like and do it.
    2. When you realize you've taken it as far as you can, figure out what you're missing.
    3. Pick another program to remedy those weaknesses and do it.

    Repeat steps 2. and 3. until you die of old age.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by iniQuity View Post
    I think the main problem when it comes to these discussions is one side is willing to say that a person with a good deadlift is strong, but the other side thinks a one-finger, one-arm pull up is impressive grip strength only. They'll do anything to discredit any accomplishment not centered around a bar.

    This is why we can't have nice things.
    I think its incredibly impressive, and I cannot do it myself so it would be shortsighted of me to discount the strength required. I just meant their total strength is relative to their bodyweight + difficulty of the exercise they can perform, whereas someone who has a 3x bodyweight deadlift is on a general basis, more "strong".

    It is splitting hairs at the end of the day, if you can complete 8-10 reps of the advanced bodyweight exercises you are a most likely a lean & strong individual and nobody would call you anything else. I'm just trying to make the case of the difference in progressive overload & efficiency between a complete bodyweight exercise program vs. barbell exercise only.

  4. #44
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    I'm not sure I understand where the limitations are you speak of. When I do pull-ups, push-ups, etc I literally do any and all variations possible. There is more freedom in being able to do bodyweights then with barbells which in turn would strengthen the joints and tendons far more then barbells and injury would be far less likely. After having my shoulder rebuilt due to a posterior dislocation and having to repair all 4 muscle in my rotator cuff my view on training is quite different.

    After not lifting weights for 2 years I can still bench about 250 lbs and squat over 400 lbs. Have you ever tried a pistol squat or walking pistol? Google it. Bodyweights isn't about doing 3 sets of 5-10 reps but about creating strength through movement where range of motion is not limited. Next time you get a chance try a human flag and tell me how that works out for you.

    Now I understand everyone has their own method of working out and whatever works for you then run with it. For me bodyweights makes more sense b/c there is no gym required, I can workout outside, incorporate my son into my workout and I am definitely strong enough to do whatever I need to do plus some.

    Also Hershel Walker does only bodyweights and I think that guy could pick up 4x his bodyweight. and you can still have progressive overload with bodyweight exercises through variation.
    Last edited by AppalachianMatt; 04-24-2013 at 11:00 AM.
    Today is a new day. You will get out of it just what you put into it. If you have made mistakes, there is always another chance for you. And supposing you have tried and failed again and again, you may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call 'Failure' is not the falling down, but the staying down.

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  5. #45
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    1 arm pull-ups are ridiculously hard. Muscle ups even moreso so I give lots of props to anyone who can complete just one. Weights can be a great tool to utilize and if thats your thing then go with it, if bodyweights work best for you then cool. If a combo gets you results then by golly do them.

    I hate these type of forums b/c people get too easily offended and they think they're getting attacked. If only these conversations could happen in person we'd be far better off.
    Today is a new day. You will get out of it just what you put into it. If you have made mistakes, there is always another chance for you. And supposing you have tried and failed again and again, you may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call 'Failure' is not the falling down, but the staying down.

    Mary Pickford

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears View Post
    I think its incredibly impressive, and I cannot do it myself so it would be shortsighted of me to discount the strength required. I just meant their total strength is relative to their bodyweight + difficulty of the exercise they can perform, whereas someone who has a 3x bodyweight deadlift is on a general basis, more "strong".

    It is splitting hairs at the end of the day, if you can complete 8-10 reps of the advanced bodyweight exercises you are a most likely a lean & strong individual and nobody would call you anything else. I'm just trying to make the case of the difference in progressive overload & efficiency between a complete bodyweight exercise program vs. barbell exercise only.
    I got you, and I agree.
    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

  7. #47
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    I don't take offense ever on the internet, nor do I think I'm being attacked (unless they are directly insulting me / personally attacking me).

    I don't hate on bodyweight exercises, but my original comment in this thread was referring to the OP's attitude being a barrier to their goals.

    And Hershel Walker shouldn't be used as an example, he has insane genetics. I'm familiar with this "famous" routines of massive/insane amounts of situps / pushups. I'm sure we can all agree doing 1000 situps is not very good for strength building.

    I think this has gotten pretty far off topic so I'll just leave it there.

  8. #48
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    Agreed. I origanally put Herschel wouldn't be the best example but took it out at the last second. I completely understand and I can see where you're coming from.

    I see the world a little different and what works best for me might not work for someone else. Due to my many injuries from football and my various delpoyments overseas bodyweight exercises work best for me. It allows me to stay lean, strong and nimble. When I lifted weights on a regular basis it got to the point where I couldn't move and in my former line of work thats not a good thing.
    Today is a new day. You will get out of it just what you put into it. If you have made mistakes, there is always another chance for you. And supposing you have tried and failed again and again, you may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call 'Failure' is not the falling down, but the staying down.

    Mary Pickford

  9. #49
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    Staying flexible is important, that's become very apparent to me lately. If you're not balancing your strength training with flexibility/mobility training you're short changing yourself.
    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by iniQuity View Post
    Staying flexible is important, that's become very apparent to me lately. If you're not balancing your strength training with flexibility/mobility training you're short changing yourself.
    I train BJJ several times a week, so I'm "accidentally" following this advice (there's no better mobility/flexibility training I'm aware of), but still wonder how one could lose the ability to move through a full range of motion by doing compound barbell lifts over a full range of motion.

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