Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 112

Thread: My doctor is a moron! page 9

  1. #81
    YogaBare's Avatar
    YogaBare is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    . . .
    Posts
    4,547
    Shop Now
    UPDATE:

    Just got back from my doctors surgery, where I visited the other doc who works there. He was MUCH sweeter than the other twat, and he is hypothyroid himself so he knew about the cholesterol - thyroid link. However, he's also a vegetarian (!) and told me to give up meat again.

    Back to thyroid: in the UK, the range for t4 is 10.5 - 25!!! Or 10-20 in some labs. This just seems insane - isn't the free T4 range 4.5 -11.5 mg/dL in America?

    Because my t4 falls within the "normal" range, he wouldn't let me get t3 tested. After much persuasion he agreed to test thyroid anti bodies and Vit D tomorrow in addition to the full lipid panel.

    Also got my ferritin back - it's 31 ng/mL, which is the lower side of normal.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  2. #82
    GoJenGo's Avatar
    GoJenGo is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    630
    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    UPDATE:

    Just got back from my doctors surgery, where I visited the other doc who works there. He was MUCH sweeter than the other twat, and he is hypothyroid himself so he knew about the cholesterol - thyroid link. However, he's also a vegetarian (!) and told me to give up meat again.

    Back to thyroid: in the UK, the range for t4 is 10.5 - 25!!! Or 10-20 in some labs. This just seems insane - isn't the free T4 range 4.5 -11.5 mg/dL in America?

    Because my t4 falls within the "normal" range, he wouldn't let me get t3 tested.
    After much persuasion he agreed to test thyroid anti bodies and Vit D tomorrow in addition to the full lipid panel.

    Also got my ferritin back - it's 31 ng/mL, which is the lower side of normal.
    It really doesn't matter what your T4 is, your T3 is the key - and if you are like me (and many, many others) and you are a lousy converter, you can have a decent T4 and a bottomed out T3 level, which basically means no usable thyroid hormone. Your free
    T3 is where the money is. It's concerning that this other doc apparently does not know this. I'd either demand he test it or move on to the next after finding one who will.
    Life is not a matter of having good cards, but of playing a poor hand well.

    - Robert Louis Stevenson

  3. #83
    YogaBare's Avatar
    YogaBare is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    . . .
    Posts
    4,547
    Quote Originally Posted by GoJenGo View Post
    It really doesn't matter what your T4 is, your T3 is the key - and if you are like me (and many, many others) and you are a lousy converter, you can have a decent T4 and a bottomed out T3 level, which basically means no usable thyroid hormone. Your free
    T3 is where the money is. It's concerning that this other doc apparently does not know this. I'd either demand he test it or move on to the next after finding one who will.
    Cheers Jen. Unfortunately, because of the free health care, the docs have to follow protocol for testing. They cannot request a test for t3 unless t4 or TSh are out of bounds! Which is prob why the ranges for both these hormones is quite different in the UK to anywhere else: the government is trying to save money. Call me suspicious

    I could get it all tested privately. I'm going to Poland in a couple of months and these things are a lot cheaper over there so I'll get whatever I need over there. Would be nice to know sooner rather than later though!
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  4. #84
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Narberth, PA
    Posts
    5,622
    Along with the thyroid issue, you may also want to get your liver enzymes tested. To me, a high TC suggests two things:

    1.) Impaired thyroid function
    2.) Impaired liver function

    Either you're hypo/exhibiting symptoms of adrenal fatigue leading to high cholesterol, or your liver is dumping cholesterol into your blood for some reason. The seed oils originally were considered heart healthy because they cause a sudden drop in blood cholesterol, but in reality it's because they make your liver hoard cholesterol (which leads to other problems...like fatty liver).

    Yes, high TC is a symptom of something else being wrong, I agree with that. But for the time being, it may be a smart idea to reduce fats. I don't think a high fat diet is ideal for most of us. I believe we burn sugar preferentially for a reason and our body doesn't like being glycogen depleted as it is indicative of famine and a natural stressor that can cause chronic disease overtime. It doesn't sound like you're a HFLC zombe Yoga, which is good, but it may be smart to reduce fats and high fructose fruits for leaner meats, starches and veggies.

    - OR - that could be a bad plan if you're hypothyroid because fruits and coconut oil is the prescription for helping fix that!

    So many options...
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 04-22-2013 at 08:49 AM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  5. #85
    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,671
    I might consider a mix of what choco is talking about. That would be keep saturated fat high (good for liver), severely reduce fructose (good for liver), eat plenty of starch in the place of your fructose (refills liver glycogen just fine for thyroid hormone conversion).

    Saturated fat has been shown to help improve liver function and even reverse fatty liver (which will raise blood cholesterol levels while healing).

    The starch is perfectly capable of refilling liver glycogen and keeping your conversion rate healthy without overtaxing the liver as fructose does.

  6. #86
    GoJenGo's Avatar
    GoJenGo is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    630
    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Cheers Jen. Unfortunately, because of the free health care, the docs have to follow protocol for testing. They cannot request a test for t3 unless t4 or TSh are out of bounds! Which is prob why the ranges for both these hormones is quite different in the UK to anywhere else: the government is trying to save money. Call me suspicious

    I could get it all tested privately. I'm going to Poland in a couple of months and these things are a lot cheaper over there so I'll get whatever I need over there. Would be nice to know sooner rather than later though!
    I wondered if that might be the case, and that is just ridiculous. If there is any way you can swing it to cover the cost, I'd test privately. The omission of the T3 level in the test you took renders it fairly useless, based on my (limited) understanding Either the author of the protocol has ZERO understanding of how the thyroid and thyroid hormones work, or they know EXACTLY what they're doing. My money is on the latter. What a great way for them to avoid having to treat thyroid issues! You're not alone in your suspicion.

    I'm sorry, this has got to be frustrating as hell.
    Life is not a matter of having good cards, but of playing a poor hand well.

    - Robert Louis Stevenson

  7. #87
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Narberth, PA
    Posts
    5,622
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I might consider a mix of what choco is talking about. That would be keep saturated fat high (good for liver), severely reduce fructose (good for liver), eat plenty of starch in the place of your fructose (refills liver glycogen just fine for thyroid hormone conversion).

    Saturated fat has been shown to help improve liver function and even reverse fatty liver (which will raise blood cholesterol levels while healing).

    The starch is perfectly capable of refilling liver glycogen and keeping your conversion rate healthy without overtaxing the liver as fructose does.
    The only thing that I'm unsure of is...

    Fructose seems to produce more cholesterol than starch. Ray Peat actually recommends people with low cholesterol swap out starch in their diet for fruit sugar to raise cholesterol numbers.

    But fructose also generates more CO2 than starch, which implies it is superior at boosting thyroid function.

    So it's the chicken and the egg. If the high total cholesterol is a result of impaired thyroid function, fructose would be more beneficial than starch calorie-for-calorie. However, if the high TC is not related to thyroid, starch would be the superior choice. So which is the superior choice? I don't know. Trial and error perhaps?
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  8. #88
    YogaBare's Avatar
    YogaBare is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    . . .
    Posts
    4,547
    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Along with the thyroid issue, you may also want to get your liver enzymes tested. To me, a high TC suggests two things:

    1.) Impaired thyroid function
    2.) Impaired liver function

    Either you're hypo/exhibiting symptoms of adrenal fatigue leading to high cholesterol, or your liver is dumping cholesterol into your blood for some reason. The seed oils originally were considered heart healthy because they cause a sudden drop in blood cholesterol, but in reality it's because they make your liver hoard cholesterol (which leads to other problems...like fatty liver).

    Yes, high TC is a symptom of something else being wrong, I agree with that. But for the time being, it may be a smart idea to reduce fats. I don't think a high fat diet is ideal for most of us. I believe we burn sugar preferentially for a reason and our body doesn't like being glycogen depleted as it is indicative of famine and a natural stressor that can cause chronic disease overtime. It doesn't sound like you're a HFLC zombe Yoga, which is good, but it may be smart to reduce fats and high fructose fruits for leaner meats, starches and veggies.

    - OR - that could be a bad plan if you're hypothyroid because fruits and coconut oil is the prescription for helping fix that!

    So many options...
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I might consider a mix of what choco is talking about. That would be keep saturated fat high (good for liver), severely reduce fructose (good for liver), eat plenty of starch in the place of your fructose (refills liver glycogen just fine for thyroid hormone conversion).

    Saturated fat has been shown to help improve liver function and even reverse fatty liver (which will raise blood cholesterol levels while healing).

    The starch is perfectly capable of refilling liver glycogen and keeping your conversion rate healthy without overtaxing the liver as fructose does.
    Thanks guys. You know, I've taken away all rules about food from now on, and ironically the food I want is exactly what you're suggesting! Rice, bananas, coconut milk, shell fish, gelatine, eggs, potatoes. That's it. That's been the core of my diet for the last two weeks. I've been eating coconut oil by the spoon but going to stop that. I also have a really strong instinct to give up the full fat greek yogurt.

    My instinct is that the problem is starting in my liver. I'm not a big follower of chinese medicine, but I do like to get acupuncture and every time I've gone (for the last four years) I have been told my liver is blocked. After my tests tomorrow I'll start taking milk thistle.

    That's interesting about the seed oils Choco. When I was HFLC I was gorging on nuts all the time. I wonder if all the PUFA had the effect of making my liver store the cholesterol, and now it's being released? (I haven't eaten nuts or avos in a few months).

    Thanks again for the suggestions!
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  9. #89
    YogaBare's Avatar
    YogaBare is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    . . .
    Posts
    4,547
    Quote Originally Posted by GoJenGo View Post
    I wondered if that might be the case, and that is just ridiculous. If there is any way you can swing it to cover the cost, I'd test privately. The omission of the T3 level in the test you took renders it fairly useless, based on my (limited) understanding Either the author of the protocol has ZERO understanding of how the thyroid and thyroid hormones work, or they know EXACTLY what they're doing. My money is on the latter. What a great way for them to avoid having to treat thyroid issues! You're not alone in your suspicion.

    I'm sorry, this has got to be frustrating as hell.
    It is frustrating, but not half as frustrating as it would be for someone who had no knowledge, no support, and was just put on endless reams of drugs which made them sicker and sicker (eg. my mum).

    It's more scarey because my mum started getting sick (with her thyroid) when she was my age, and now she's a complete mess. I don't want to repeat her life.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  10. #90
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Narberth, PA
    Posts
    5,622
    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Thanks guys. You know, I've taken away all rules about food from now on, and ironically the food I want is exactly what you're suggesting! Rice, bananas, coconut milk, shell fish, gelatine, eggs, potatoes. That's it. That's been the core of my diet for the last two weeks. I've been eating coconut oil by the spoon but going to stop that. I also have a really strong instinct to give up the full fat greek yogurt.

    My instinct is that the problem is starting in my liver. I'm not a big follower of chinese medicine, but I do like to get acupuncture and every time I've gone (for the last four years) I have been told my liver is blocked. After my tests tomorrow I'll start taking milk thistle.

    That's interesting about the seed oils Choco. When I was HFLC I was gorging on nuts all the time. I wonder if all the PUFA had the effect of making my liver store the cholesterol, and now it's being released? (I haven't eaten nuts or avos in a few months).

    Thanks again for the suggestions!
    This is pretty interesting.

    Since the l930s, it has been clearly established that suppression of the thyroid raises serum cholesterol (while increasing mortality from infections, cancer, and heart disease), while restoring the thyroid hormone brings cholesterol down to normal. In this situation, however, thyroid isn't suppressing the synthesis of cholesterol, but rather is promoting its use to form hormones and bile salts. When the thyroid is functioning properly, the amount of cholesterol in the blood entering the ovary governs the amount of progesterone being produced by the ovary, and the same situation exists in all steroid-forming tissues, such as the adrenal glands and the brain. Progesterone and its precursor, pregnenolone, have a generalized protective function: antioxidant, anti-seizure, antitoxin, anti-spasm, anti-clot, anti-cancer, pro-memory, pro-myelination, pro-attention, etc. Any interference with the formation of cholesterol will interfere with all of these exceedingly important protective functions.

    As far as the evidence goes, it suggests that coconut oil, added regularly to a balanced diet, lowers cholesterol to normal by promoting its conversion into pregnenolone. (The coconut family contains steroids that resemble pregnenolone, but these are probably mostly removed when the fresh oil is washed with water to remove the enzymes which would digest the oil.) Coconut-eating cultures in the tropics have consistently lower cholesterol than people in the U.S. Everyone that I know who uses coconut oil regularly happens to have cholesterol levels of about 160, while eating mainly cholesterol rich foods (eggs, milk, cheese, meat, shellfish). I encourage people to eat sweet fruits, rather than starches, if they want to increase their production of cholesterol, since fructose has that effect.
    Coconut Oil

    I think this article will be a very good read for you and may shed some light on your problems.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •