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  1. #71
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    Yagabare, why can't you swap GPs?
    How do I change my GP? - Health questions - NHS Choices

    Not that I am a a fan of statins at all, but even Robb Wolf says that they have their place.
    I've read that the have been prescribed to some of the people taking part in the Reno Risk assessment programme that Robb is involved with. IIRC they were used for individuals which extremely high cholesterol and in much smaller doses than the standard prescription and only in the short term. Also, I think they were talking about male patients, so may well not be relevant to the OP.
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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammies View Post
    I wouldn't take statins, but I would want to know more about what was going on.

    Cholesterol: a new study and review | Bare 5
    I agree: cholesterol is a symptom that something else is screwy. Drugs should be the last port of call, not the first.

    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Actually, the U curve only applies to men. What I said is true for women. From the link you provided:

    You're welcome.
    Thanks for this MM!

    Quote Originally Posted by Misabi View Post
    Yagabare, why can't you swap GPs?
    How do I change my GP? - Health questions - NHS Choices

    Not that I am a a fan of statins at all, but even Robb Wolf says that they have their place.
    I've read that the have been prescribed to some of the people taking part in the Reno Risk assessment programme that Robb is involved with. IIRC they were used for individuals which extremely high cholesterol and in much smaller doses than the standard prescription and only in the short term. Also, I think they were talking about male patients, so may well not be relevant to the OP.
    Thanks!!! Had no idea I could do that. Although have been speaking to my mates, and they all equally complain about their GPs... just seems to be a thing over here. The GPs aren't passionate about what they do.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Actually, the U curve only applies to men. What I said is true for women. From the link you provided:

    You're welcome.
    Wow - I never noticed that data was just for men. Thank you!

    However, have you seen data where they measured above 250? I'd like to see how far out that holds.
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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammies View Post
    Wow - I never noticed that data was just for men. Thank you!

    However, have you seen data where they measured above 250? I'd like to see how far out that holds.
    Well, I'm the perfect candidate to use as a guinea pig. We could also start hedging bets about if / when I'm going to kick the bucket
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    We could also start hedging bets about if / when I'm going to kick the bucket
    I bet that you will...someday. No bets on when, though.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    What I'm doing now is keeping warm, being with people who love me, channelling my emotions and thoughts into my journal, doing my yoga, taking care of my body, continuing to educate myself. I happen to have a job I love, so that side is cool too. I'm not into meds (I don't even l like taking supps!) so unless I have to, I wont be taking them. To be honest, if I find out I do have a thyroid condition I'll be very relived, cos at least this is something concrete that would explain why I'm so depressed.
    Just jumping this conversation over from hypo thread.
    I just noticed the quote in your signature.
    "Sometimes eating the wrong food with the right attitude is a better choice than eating the right food with the wrong attitude... That’s how powerful the mind and the heart can be in the healing process."
    - Chris Kresser
    That's where I've come to as well,
    Depression is a real downer, parden the pun, there's a few individuals around me punching it out with the "Black Dog" and I had routine bout's that I just thought were normal, I'm pretty convinced mine were related to Grain carbs/gluten et al, particularly as I lapsed a bit diet wise before the xmas and invariably found myself in the Black hole for 2 weeks, the connection was too strong to ignore.
    There is no denying that your cholesterol is high, but irrespective of that cholesterol it self is nothing but good, the question is why your body feels the need to have high cholesterol, more than likely we are talking system wide repairs. I can envisage a situation with your past process that could have precipitated this, fighting with the ED, enforcing veganism, low carb etc. whatever we do to our body it will try to cope in the best way it can, going from Veganism to VLC Paleo is paramount to jumping from the frying pan into the fire, so your body will take drastic action to defend itself.
    Outside of the elements we aren't aware of, we do know that your body was not fat adapted, and to get the supply of glucose your body was used to you would have had to have had a massive ramping up of gluconeogenesis along with a number of other hormonal adjustments to lower glucose demand, metabplic downregulation.
    That's not to say that VLC is not right for you, just means your body needs time to adjust before you can know that answer.
    My tastes have been gradually changing towards higher fat, and so have my partners but not as quickly for her, it's been well over 12 months now for us and we are only at the moderate carb level. Pushing back a spoonfull of coconut oil like medicine is completely different to savouring it with lip smacking goodness, when you get a taste for fat, then you'll know your body is getting fat adapted and is looking for more.
    The only thing that I would be wary of is the refined sugars and other sweeteners, they are concentrated and most of us have a taste for them, it's an ancestral taste urge, but they weren't on the shelf, so if you want a big spoon of honey go climb a 60" tree first.
    The journal is great, my partner has been keeping a symptoms journal where she notes diet and bodily symptoms as well as her twite dailt temp and pulse rate, she's got 3 years of records now, the other aspect of this is when she notes down daily changes temps etc before bed, she is focussing on her body and how it is feeling, this directed awareness is getting her more tuned with her body and also setting the appropriate mindset for healing before going to sleep which is when much of the work is done.

    Get more testing to determine where your issues lie, but remember most of the results will just be clues and not the actual cause.
    Have you had Leptin tested?
    It'll probably be a pay for, but when all is said and done and everything else is in place, getting leptin right will be a strong indicator of good health.
    My partner had hers tested, she was high, just out of range, we will do it annually as a marker of overall healing.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awilda2are View Post
    I just got back from my doc, where I was getting my first blood test results since being veggie / vegan. I got Cholesterol, Thyroid and Ferretin checked
    So nice to see a spam bot that takes care of its health!
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    There is no denying that your cholesterol is high, but irrespective of that cholesterol it self is nothing but good, the question is why your body feels the need to have high cholesterol, more than likely we are talking system wide repairs. I can envisage a situation with your past process that could have precipitated this, fighting with the ED, enforcing veganism, low carb etc. whatever we do to our body it will try to cope in the best way it can, going from Veganism to VLC Paleo is paramount to jumping from the frying pan into the fire, so your body will take drastic action to defend itself.
    Thanks for replying Omni That actually makes total sense, and I remember at one point you advised someone to make gradual changes in their diet instead of jumping off the deep end. I've been jerking my body around along, kind of thinking that I could shock it into compliance, but instead it's gone haywire. Even now I think it's still in shock from being fed regularly instead of being in the binge-stave cycle.

    It's a relief to keep thinking that cholesterol is not the cause of heart attacks, and that cholesterol in itself is a good thing. The fact that it's so high just means there is some other health issue I need to look into.

    Outside of the elements we aren't aware of, we do know that your body was not fat adapted, and to get the supply of glucose your body was used to you would have had to have had a massive ramping up of gluconeogenesis along with a number of other hormonal adjustments to lower glucose demand, metabplic downregulation.
    That's not to say that VLC is not right for you, just means your body needs time to adjust before you can know that answer.
    My tastes have been gradually changing towards higher fat, and so have my partners but not as quickly for her, it's been well over 12 months now for us and we are only at the moderate carb level. Pushing back a spoonfull of coconut oil like medicine is completely different to savouring it with lip smacking goodness, when you get a taste for fat, then you'll know your body is getting fat adapted and is looking for more.
    Actually, I said I wasn't going to eat spoons of coconut oils anymore because I n longer want to eat things trying to hack my body (ramping up metabolism etc). I actually love the taste of coconut oil!

    The only thing that I would be wary of is the refined sugars and other sweeteners, they are concentrated and most of us have a taste for them, it's an ancestral taste urge, but they weren't on the shelf, so if you want a big spoon of honey go climb a 60" tree first.
    Well, I got some flac on this thread already because I don't believe sugar is harmful. My intake at the moment is probably an average of two tea spoons a day, though I go weeks without any. I eat sugar free gum a few times a week, but other than that I fall heavily within the Primal parameters. I've had chocolate maybe three times in the last three months and I had a few beers on Sat night. I don't set aside "cheat meals" like a lot of people do. I have such a bad reaction to gluten and processed foods (mentally and physically) that it's not worth it.

    Get more testing to determine where your issues lie, but remember most of the results will just be clues and not the actual cause.
    Have you had Leptin tested?
    It's probably a good idea to get a hormonal panel done. I think this is free with our health care here as well: it's just a matter of convincing the docs that you need it.

    I'm meeting a new doc today, so we'll see what he says.

    Thanks so much for your input!
    Last edited by YogaBare; 04-22-2013 at 01:40 AM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  9. #79
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    I fully agree on the sugar, in itself it is not harmful, it's in just about all the foods we eat, even meat,
    the danger just lies in the volumes of it that we can consume when it is within easy reach.

    Sugar is a comfort food and that's fine now and then, but regular consumption in large volumes results in an emotional rollercoaster situation, it can creep in quite inscidiously if we are not aware of it.

    I don't like artificial sweeteners, even stevia, so I do use sugar and honey when I do deserts, or in coffee and much the same probably get a few teaspoons a day on average.
    As far as been Primal, in moderation I don't think there is an issue.

    Misunderstood the coconut oil comment, got it now.
    As far as fat adapting goes, I think the issue is much more complex, someone in good health may take 3-6months IMO, sure you can ram through the Low carb flu in 2-3 weeks and declare you feel better, hence you are fat adapted, but if anyone actually did some serious monitoring you'd find that there was continuous progress for quite a few months afterward, the low carb flu stage is just the minimum requirement, it doesn't stop there.
    On the other hand if one is not healthy, then the body is working on limited resources, you are asking it to heal and at the same time revamp the entire system to use another primary fuel, all this takes energy and if you are also restricting total calories at the same time, there aint no way this is all going to happen.

    I've had a bit of a taste of it, particularly seeing my ability improve in the fasted state, my levels of activity haven't really changed that much over time, but over time but my endurance has improved significantly and I'd put that down to fat adaptation in the muscles particularly. I will go full Keto at some point in the future, I like the idea of doing keto cycling to keep both the fat and glucose machinery well lubricated, but for now just going with the flow.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    As far as fat adapting goes, I think the issue is much more complex, someone in good health may take 3-6months IMO, sure you can ram through the Low carb flu in 2-3 weeks and declare you feel better, hence you are fat adapted, but if anyone actually did some serious monitoring you'd find that there was continuous progress for quite a few months afterward, the low carb flu stage is just the minimum requirement, it doesn't stop there.
    On the other hand if one is not healthy, then the body is working on limited resources, you are asking it to heal and at the same time revamp the entire system to use another primary fuel, all this takes energy and if you are also restricting total calories at the same time, there aint no way this is all going to happen.

    I've had a bit of a taste of it, particularly seeing my ability improve in the fasted state, my levels of activity haven't really changed that much over time, but over time but my endurance has improved significantly and I'd put that down to fat adaptation in the muscles particularly. I will go full Keto at some point in the future, I like the idea of doing keto cycling to keep both the fat and glucose machinery well lubricated, but for now just going with the flow.
    You're a wise man Omni.

    I was definitely underfeeding myself for the first month on this woe, and then I started the binge-starve cycle. The binges were all primal, but then I would "Fast" for 48 hours afterwards, or at least IF, and I definitely noticed it getting easier and easier with time. I could also distinctly feel when I slipped into ketosis: there was this taste I would get in my mouth, and I'd enter this superfocused frame of mind, which I actually didn't like. I felt on edge.

    Out of interest, does your partner also eat VLC and how does this effect her thyroid issues?
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

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