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Thread: My doctor is a moron! page 10

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    This is pretty interesting.



    Coconut Oil

    I think this article will be a very good read for you and may shed some light on your problems.
    Thank you Good to know I can put coconut oil back on the menu!

    Some aspects of the Peat diet seem completely insane, but his articles are genius and I love him for those.

    Edit: Actually, I have always eaten a shit load of fruit... (apart from when I was VLC). I've eaten tons of it over the last month too. Hmm.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 04-22-2013 at 10:56 AM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  2. #92
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    Takes a bit of wading through to get to the relevant info but start here: LowTemp
    Then here: TSH, temperature, pulse rate, and other indicators in hypothyroidism

    want to read this later, I haven't been sleeping well either. Thanks

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Thank you Good to know I can put coconut oil back on the menu!

    Some aspects of the Peat diet seem completely insane, but his articles are genius and I love him for those.

    Edit: Actually, I have always eaten a shit load of fruit... (apart from when I was VLC). I've eaten tons of it over the last month too. Hmm.
    There is no such thing as a "Peat diet." He doesn't give any recommendations. He's just a researcher. There are people who try and create associations, but they take it to a strange degree. For example, Peat states that fruit sugar is more healthful than polyunsaturated fat. To me, that means that apples, oranges and bananas are healthier than walnuts and pistachios, so if you have the choice between the two, fruit is superior. However, some people turn that into "soda is fine because it contains sucrose, similar to fruit, and walnuts will kill you because of PUFA's."

    Peat states that SFA's are healthier than PUFA's. I think we all can agree with that. But I don't see Peat telling anyone to blend butter in their coffee or eat tablespoons of coconut oil out of a jar like people in paleo circles do for some reason. I think Peat's articles are very informative and not extreme at all, especially compared to paleo ones! Do a search for "I just take 3 tablespoons of coconut oil and my stomach hurts, why?!" Because you just ate 360 calories of refined fat with nothing else, maybe?!

    I don't think you'll see Ray Peat say that anywhere. People try and justify their own vices.

    I still don't advocate taking a spoon to a tub of coconut oil. But cooking food in it makes sense to me. YMMV.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 04-22-2013 at 11:46 AM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    UPDATE:

    Just got back from my doctors surgery, where I visited the other doc who works there. He was MUCH sweeter than the other twat, and he is hypothyroid himself so he knew about the cholesterol - thyroid link. However, he's also a vegetarian (!) and told me to give up meat again.

    Back to thyroid: in the UK, the range for t4 is 10.5 - 25!!! Or 10-20 in some labs. This just seems insane - isn't the free T4 range 4.5 -11.5 mg/dL in America?

    Because my t4 falls within the "normal" range, he wouldn't let me get t3 tested. After much persuasion he agreed to test thyroid anti bodies and Vit D tomorrow in addition to the full lipid panel.

    Also got my ferritin back - it's 31 ng/mL, which is the lower side of normal.
    Using the lab range (10.5-25) your T4 is only 8% of it's range. Using the (10-20) range it is 16%. Many people feel best when both their FT4 and FT3 are at at least midrange. Which for your ranges is 17.25 and 15.

    One thing you might consider is seeing if this doctor would be open to this rationale:
    Doctor, my T4 is at the low end of the range and I have all these symptoms (list them), where is the harm in trying a low dose 25-50mcg of levothyroxine for 6-8 weeks to see if getting my T4 levels higher improves how I feel/my symptoms, as well as my lipid panel. We could retest in 8 weeks to see where things are.

    If he agrees you could still get a complete panel while in Poland to see where your T3, and hopefully your frees, are.

    And, your ferritin is too low.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    There is no such thing as a "Peat diet." He doesn't give any recommendations. He's just a researcher. There are people who try and create associations, but they take it to a strange degree. For example, Peat states that fruit sugar is more healthful than polyunsaturated fat. To me, that means that apples, oranges and bananas are healthier than walnuts and pistachios, so if you have the choice between the two, fruit is superior. However, some people turn that into "soda is fine because it contains sucrose, similar to fruit, and walnuts will kill you because of PUFA's."

    Peat states that SFA's are healthier than PUFA's. I think we all can agree with that. But I don't see Peat telling anyone to blend butter in their coffee or eat tablespoons of coconut oil out of a jar like people in paleo circles do for some reason. I think Peat's articles are very informative and not extreme at all, especially compared to paleo ones! Do a search for "I just take 3 tablespoons of coconut oil and my stomach hurts, why?!" Because you just ate 360 calories of refined fat with nothing else, maybe?!

    I don't think you'll see Ray Peat say that anywhere. People try and justify their own vices.

    I still don't advocate taking a spoon to a tub of coconut oil. But cooking food in it makes sense to me. YMMV.
    I actually love the taste of refined coconut oil. When I cook my eggs in it I always have to have a tastel! I tried (and failed) to resist for the last few days, cos' the of the cholesterol thing. Good to know I can still allow myself that little pleasure

    Peat does have dietary suggestions. In radio interviews (yes, I listen to him ) i've heard him say "low fat milk is better than full fat", "drink lots of coffee", "olive oil is fattening - limit it to one tea spoon a day". You could be right about the other aspects though: I've never heard him advocating soda.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcadav View Post
    Using the lab range (10.5-25) your T4 is only 8% of it's range. Using the (10-20) range it is 16%. Many people feel best when both their FT4 and FT3 are at at least midrange. Which for your ranges is 17.25 and 15.

    One thing you might consider is seeing if this doctor would be open to this rationale:
    Doctor, my T4 is at the low end of the range and I have all these symptoms (list them), where is the harm in trying a low dose 25-50mcg of levothyroxine for 6-8 weeks to see if getting my T4 levels higher improves how I feel/my symptoms, as well as my lipid panel. We could retest in 8 weeks to see where things are.

    If he agrees you could still get a complete panel while in Poland to see where your T3, and hopefully your frees, are.

    And, your ferritin is too low.
    Thanks Marcadav! Thats a good point. Do you think there's much benefit in getting thyroid anti bodies tested? That's what's happening tomorrow.

    And wow - I actually looked up Ferritin stuff. It says Ferritin levels need to be between 100 and 150 to help the thyroid work well? Over here the recommended range starts at 17! Is low ferritin a sign of something else going on? I eat red meat and shell fish.

    Edit: just looked into it. Low ferritin can cause hypothyroidism, but hypothyroidism can also cause low ferritin. Interesting.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 04-22-2013 at 12:34 PM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  7. #97
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    Frankly if I were facing symptoms and labs that indicated liver or thyroid disorder that I could not get a handle on by my self I would bite the bullet and find a functional medicine doctor to run some functional test and treat accordingly. Your likely looking at about 2-$3000 worth of out of pocket expense since insurance doesn't cover such testing or treatment, but to me it would be worth 10 times that to find and fix my body without resorting to synthetic hormones and/or statins.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    I was definitely underfeeding myself for the first month on this woe, and then I started the binge-starve cycle. The binges were all primal, but then I would "Fast" for 48 hours afterwards, or at least IF, and I definitely noticed it getting easier and easier with time. I could also distinctly feel when I slipped into ketosis: there was this taste I would get in my mouth, and I'd enter this superfocused frame of mind, which I actually didn't like. I felt on edge.

    Out of interest, does your partner also eat VLC and how does this effect her thyroid issues?
    I wouldn't consider us VLC, I'm up at around 100-200g/carbs and she's probably another 50g up from me, in addition she does not do the fasting, most of the time she'll have a late breakfast, say around 11am and then just eat when she wants to, although she is starting to get more of a taste for fat and about a month ago I noticed a slight odour on her breath so I think her body has just started playing with ketones and this seems to fit with her recent changes in headspace.

    I'm not really sure what kind of mental focus one is supposed to have with Ketosis, but if you had the superfocus on edge kind of feel, that sounds like a predatory response, i.e. ready to hunt, which to me would suggest some nutrient deficiency and the body was getting single minded about it.

    I'll try to describe the feeling we both have, although we describe it in different ways, is like you are in a room at a party and it is crowded with people and they,re all talking to you, some criticising your clothes, your hair, your diet, there's some encouraging, but usually with the qualifier that you could do better, then all of a sudden these voices have all drifted to the edges of the room and the room has gotten bigger, you notice it's like an art gallery of sorts, there are some interesting features you can now appreciate, the room is white, you suddenly have space to move around, you can still hear the voices but they're really faint so you can't quite make out what they're saying, you can choose to go and converse with individual groups or you can just hang around having some quiet time thinking about nothing in particular.
    That the headspace, the voices are your fears, concerns, desires etc., they don't go away, they have a legitimate place in your world, but they shouldn't be chewing your ear off 24/7.
    When you find this place, you'll know it, it's a little strange, but not alarming, your clarity and vision just seems brighter, you may well heve touched on this place with meditation and yoga, as I have in the past, but more and more it has just started to become the norm rather than the exception, all your fears and concerns are still there, but the edge has been taken off them, they have just fallen back to an appropriate level.
    Life still sucks quite a bit, we're not talking Nirvanah here, but just a bit more freedom to deal with things as they come.
    Put simply you might describe it as the present moment, no past regrets, no future concerns, just the here and now.

    I do believe diet plays a major role in either clearing or clogging this awareness, whether you want to talk about ketones, glucose, lactate, AGE's, Gluten etc. There are more effects and combinations than we can comprehend, but as we start reducing the toxins and increasing the nutrients, then the body starts rebuilding our house and gradually things start to get better, but as said before it seems to go in steps spaced a fair way apart, so like walking a long road with a step a long way apart, when you reach a step suddenly you have more clarity, you can see further, the air seems fresher etc. then you continue on, but you have to walk the path to the next step, could be a week away or six months or more, but the only way to get there is to walk, so settle back into a comfortable pace, take time out to enjoy the view and before you know it your at the next step up, and so on, it's life's journey.

    I'll go and read some technical study now just to clear my head of all this hippy s#it.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Thanks Marcadav! Thats a good point. Do you think there's much benefit in getting thyroid anti bodies tested? That's what's happening tomorrow.
    While you can have Hashimoto's with a normal antibody test result, finding out where you stand is always good. And, some doctors will treat if antibodies and symptoms are present.

  10. #100
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    Regarding all the hormonal stuff, although all the considerations are great, I still think you need to consider the context of your history and symptoms.
    Keep gathering info, but stabilise now for a few months, keep track of your symptoms and their progression, if you feel you are improving, then you really do need to question whether using hormones will be beneficial, just because thyroid may be low doesn't mean you need thyroxine, if you are overtly expressing Hypo symptoms that are affecting your quality of life, then yes try it, but if not then you may just be forcing your body to push the equilibrium further south as it tries to balance what it feels it needs to and it may further lower thyroid function, if that is what is really happening.
    If you really don't know what's broken, then how do you know what needs to be fixed?

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