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Thread: Rippetoe's New Article - Must Read If You Have Strength Questions page 5

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Well, I hurt myself a month or so ago. I was up to 125 on the squats. Today I squatted 100lbs and it was hard. So yeah, you can lose strength in 3-5 weeks. Also, the strength of barbells only translated a little bit to hiking and backpacking. Easier to carry the weight but I often got sore afterwards.
    I would hazard a guess that your injury played more of a role than any actually loss of muscle/strength..... unless you have been unwell and eating too little to retain your muscle mass.

    Or it could be that because you are a novice you don't have sufficient muscle memory for the lift and it'll take a workout or two to get back in the grove.

    Heck Riptoe himself says strength is a persistent adaptation. Once your strong it kinda sticks with you. I don't understand his "deconditioning" bit for this article completely. I agree with his original position.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-16-2013 at 07:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    Similarly to what I mentioned in a previous post, for a real life task requiring a lot of strength, would you pick a powerlifter/weight lifter/strongman to help you, or a gymnast?
    If the task is a one time lift of a piano I might pick the strongman. If we are carrying shingles up and down the ladder for a roofing job I'm gonna go with the gymnast. Which of those two do you think your "average 30 something fella" is doing on his weekends?

    Don't bother answering. I've used barbells as part of my training for over 20 years. I already know the argument for them, and for the most part I agree. Well except for barbell bench press. Fuck that exercise . Again, just like in the nutrition side we likely agree on 99% of it. I simply disagree on his absolutist stance.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-16-2013 at 07:08 PM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    If the task is a one time lift of a piano I might pick the strongman. If we are carrying shingles up and down the ladder for a roofing job I'm gonna go with the gymnast. Which of those two do you think your "average 30 something fella" is doing on his weekends?
    How heavy are the shingles you're carrying? Seems like an endurance task to me.

    How about helping you bring in heavy furniture you just bought? How about helping you push your truck off the road because it broke down? How about lifting a heavy box off the floor and putting it on a shelf? How about two thugs come up to you in an alley, which of these guys would you want walking by:

    doug_young_0011.jpgkohei-uchimura.jpg

    One is the 2012 Olympic gold winning gymnast overall, the other is Doug Young, a powerlifter. Neither has real fight experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany
    And I disagree with Gorbag about the specificity of strength. Strength is a general and persistent adaptation.
    Alright, how do you objectively measure "general strength" then? The only way as I can see is to measure by biotopsy before and after the adaption of relevant muscle cells. Yes, you have a physiological adaption that makes a correlation to the diameter of a muscle cell, so that gives a potential for a carryover between different strength movements. But except from that, what strength movement or selection of movements is the scientific accepted measure of "general strength"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Alright, how do you objectively measure "general strength" then? The only way as I can see is to measure by biotopsy before and after the adaption of relevant muscle cells. Yes, you have a physiological adaption that makes a correlation to the diameter of a muscle cell, so that gives a potential for a carryover between different strength movements. But except from that, what strength movement or selection of movements is the scientific accepted measure of "general strength"?
    Take two groups of people, group A, which have been training with barbells for a year, and group B which have been strength training with anything but barbells. Have each group perform real life tasks requiring high levels of strength. Which group do you predict will do better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    What progression of bodyweight exercises should I use to achieve a 500 lb deadlift?
    What deadlifting progression do you suggest to achieve a maltese on gymnastics rings?

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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    Take two groups of people, group A, which have been training with barbells for a year, and group B which have been strength training with anything but barbells. Have each group perform real life tasks requiring high levels of strength. Which group do you predict will do better?
    What a silly question! It depends on a crapload of different parameters and when became so called "real life tasks" a objective measurment of "general strength"? What if the testing was lifting of stones and the non-barbell group trained almost exclusively on doing just that?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    Take two groups of people, group A, which have been training with barbells for a year, and group B which have been strength training with anything but barbells. Have each group perform real life tasks requiring high levels of strength. Which group do you predict will do better?
    You know this is kinda the point. Are you "sufficiently strong". RM made a fine point on this.

    Two things... One: for me I've got a mentality of strength/weight ratio as the best way to determine who is stronger, but as a smaller guy 5'8 160, maybe this just helps me stroke my ego . Its also a leave over from when I competed in weight class sports. I suppose this is in part why I look at the gymnast and say I would much rather BE that guy than the powerlifter with a huge gut. Better strength/weight and likely better long term health.

    Two: A little anecdote. My Uncle was a big time lifter. We were doing a roof (part of why I mentioned such). My dad is an ironworker. Carrying shingles (75lbs/bag approximately).... they both only carried two bags at a time... but my dad out worked him by a mile. He could also outwork him moving furniture I'm sure. I only say this because you keep mentioning mundane tasks such as picking something up and putting it on a shelf.

    I basically lift weights because my job doesn't provide me the stress my body needs to maintain and build strength. If I was an ironworker though my ass wouldn't be bothering with the gym.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-16-2013 at 07:55 PM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    What a silly question! It depends on a crapload of different parameters and when became so called "real life tasks" a objective measurment of "general strength"? What if the testing was lifting of stones and the non-barbell group trained almost exclusively on doing just that?
    The vast majority of people who want strength, want functional strength, i.e. they want it to apply to real life. So, if one type of training makes a person better at displaying strength in real life, that type of training is thus superior.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    You know this is kinda the point. Are you "sufficiently strong". RM made a fine point on this.

    Two things... One: for me I've got a mentality of strength/weight ratio as the best way to determine who is stronger, but as a smaller guy 5'8 160, maybe this just helps me stroke my ego . Its also a leave over from when I competed in weight class sports. I suppose this is in part why I look at the gymnast and say I would much rather BE that guy than the powerlifter with a huge gut. Better strength/weight and likely better long term health.
    The one who can produce more force is the one that's stronger, regardless of weight. Strength to weight ratio is good for knowing what kind of things you can achieve with your size. Someone who has a smaller skeleton, for example, will typically expect to be able to lift less than someone who has a large skeleton. A 300lb guy deadlifting 500lb is still stronger than a 200lb guy deadlifting 400lb.

    I'm not saying being a powerlifter is good for your health. However, being a competitive athlete is not about health and longevity, it's about winning. Guys who deadlift 1,000lb don't care about their cholesterol numbers, the phytates in their food, or their stomach size, they just care about deadlifting 1,000lb. Same for sprinters, swimmers, Olympic lifters, MMA fighters, NFL players, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I only say this because you keep mentioning mundane tasks such as picking something up and putting it on a shelf.
    You can come up with better more fun examples of real life strength. Perhaps lifting your significant other and carrying them upstairs with ease?

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