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Thread: Rippetoe's New Article - Must Read If You Have Strength Questions page 12

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    I think it is because I workout and I get sore. But I have a desk job so I sit down with my sore muscles and they get shortened as they heal. It's a bit frustrating.
    You might become less flexible than before but you won't lose fundamental flexibility such as to pick up stuff off the floor. If it's an issue, mobility work is good, no one argues against it. However, you won't lose the ability to perform everyday tasks from barbell workouts.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    A very pointless discussion until the "general strength " guys defines "strength" and put up the corresponding testing movements to measure it, which they still refuses to do...
    I finally get it. No one knows what strength is, and no one knows how to measure it. Guys like Ed Coan, with a squat of 1019lb, bench press of 584lb, and deadlift of 901lb or Mikhail Koklyaev who can snatch 315lb with one hand, are certainly not strong. I mean they're great at moving barbells around, but they probably can't even do a one hand chin-up, so they're not strong. All their strength is about barbell. I know that if I would be moving a big couch, I wouldn't want Ed Coan to help me. Hell, if he's never moved a couch before, he'll probably just hurt himself since his strength is so specific. Or say if I'd be hurt in battle overseas as a soldier, would I really want Koklyaev around with his 800lb double overhand grip for reps deadlift strength? I mean I'm not a barbell, so how would he possibly move my body to safety? I don't even want to mention how he would possible put me on his shoulders need be, because all he knows is how to squat 805lb with a barbell, which is a specific adaptation and would not apply to carrying a person on your shoulders.

    It all makes sense now...

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    I finally get it. No one knows what strength is, and no one knows how to measure it. Guys like Ed Coan, with a squat of 1019lb, bench press of 584lb, and deadlift of 901lb or Mikhail Koklyaev who can snatch 315lb with one hand, are certainly not strong. I mean they're great at moving barbells around, but they probably can't even do a one hand chin-up, so they're not strong. All their strength is about barbell. I know that if I would be moving a big couch, I wouldn't want Ed Coan to help me. Hell, if he's never moved a couch before, he'll probably just hurt himself since his strength is so specific. Or say if I'd be hurt in battle overseas as a soldier, would I really want Koklyaev around with his 800lb double overhand grip for reps deadlift strength? I mean I'm not a barbell, so how would he possibly move my body to safety? I don't even want to mention how he would possible put me on his shoulders need be, because all he knows is how to squat 805lb with a barbell, which is a specific adaptation and would not apply to carrying a person on your shoulders.

    It all makes sense now...
    Did you get the point that I repeated in most of my postings above that you also get a potential for carryover effect from the physiological adaptions - or maybe you only like to discuss for the sake of the discussion?

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Did you get the point that I repeated in most of my postings above that you also get a potential for carryover effect from the physiological adaptions - or maybe you only like to discuss for the sake of the discussion?
    I understand you perfectly, and I agree. Sure there is some carryover, I mean yeah, Ed Coan can probably lift the more heavy part of the couch than me, but realistically strength is specific, so he's just barbell strong. Ed Coan has a bit more carryover from "physiological adaptations" in those "muscle cells that have grown from his lifts", but he's probably just barely stronger than you and I for non-barbell things. Take the barbells away and he's just your average Joe with bigger muscles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    I understand you perfectly, and I agree. Sure there is some carryover, I mean yeah, Ed Coan can probably lift the more heavy part of the couch than me, but realistically strength is specific, so he's just barbell strong. Ed Coan has a bit more carryover from "physiological adaptations" in those "muscle cells that have grown from his lifts", but he's probably just barely stronger than you and I for non-barbell things. Take the barbells away and he's just your average Joe with bigger muscles.
    Let's test him in one legged legpress, one arm chinup's - or other for him unusual strength movements then...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Let's test him in one legged legpress, one arm chinup's - or other for him unusual strength movements then...
    We're in agreement - Ed Coan is not strong, he just trained himself to be good with barbells, that's all there's to his strength.

    For example, I used to play a lot of video games. My thumb and index finger are very developed. I can bet that I can press a Playstation controller button harder than Ed Coan. Sure, he can squat up and down with over 1,000lb on his back, but that's a specific adaptation, only applicable to barbells, with maybe some carryover in a couple muscle fibers. If I can press this Playstation controller button harder than Ed Coan, I'd say it's highly debatable which one of us is stronger.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    We're in agreement - Ed Coan is not strong, he just trained himself to be good with barbells, that's all there's to his strength.

    For example, I used to play a lot of video games. My thumb and index finger are very developed. I can bet that I can press a Playstation controller button harder than Ed Coan. Sure, he can squat up and down with over 1,000lb on his back, but that's a specific adaptation, only applicable to barbells, with maybe some carryover in a couple muscle fibers. If I can press this Playstation controller button harder than Ed Coan, I'd say it's highly debatable which one of us is stronger.
    LOL, you are still continuing this silly argument - and where have I said that Ed Conan is not strong? But everything is relative you know, is he strong when competing in a strongman competition or in olympic weightlifting? Maybe, or maybe not, since I don't know what he is able to do in those other settings. From photos he looks very strong though, no doubt about that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    LOL, you are still continuing this silly argument - and where have I said that Ed Conan is not strong? But everything is relative you know, is he strong when competing in a strongman competition or in olympic weightlifting? Maybe, or maybe not, since I don't know what he is able to do in those other settings. From photos he looks very strong though, no doubt about that...
    Well, you said strength is specific, i.e. just because someone can do a lot of weight with barbells doesn't mean they're strong because there are things like one arm chin-ups that they might not be able to do. I agree. Like I said, I can probably press a controller button harder than Ed Coan, because I have trained for it, so it's up for debate which one of us is stronger.

    Let's take Strongman competitions, which often involve lifting large stones weighing 300lb+. I never in my life lifted giant round stones before. If Ed Coan is in the same position as me, I'd say we'll be pretty close if we chose to compete in one. Heck, I bet if I trained with big stones for a month or two, I could outlift him in Strongman. He'll probably herniate a disc if he tried, it's not like his back is trained to handle heavy loads - unless of course it's a barbell, which is all he's good at.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    Rip's new article on T- Nation:
    It's a bit long winded. Could be shortened to "do manly stuff like squats and dead lift if you want to be strong". The end.

  10. #120
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    quikky, well, he probably have very good genetic's and build for powerlifting, optimal leverage and all that. From the photos he appears to have very decent myofibrillar hyperthrophy, so it's pretty much a no-brainer that he also have a good carryover to other strength movement compared to the sedentary average joe or a recreational lifter as you probably are...
    Last edited by Gorbag; 04-17-2013 at 10:17 PM.

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