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Thread: Are there any scientific studies showing the negative effects from PUFA's? page 5

  1. #41
    Artbuc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    I'm not sure I understand.

    When you eat starch and sugar, how high does your blood glucose go within 30-60 mins? It is very, very important to realize that carbohydrate does not cause diabetes or hurt insulin sensitivity. It improves it. If you keep eating a ketogenic level diet, you will never recover your ability of oxidize glucose properly. You will make it worse because low carbohydrate diets cause physiological insulin resistance. Avoiding carbohydrate leads to elevated fasting blood glucose.

    The way you will successfully heal your body is by including carbohydrate into your diet, removing PUFA from your diet (because that is the real cause of insulin resistance and diabetes) and becoming replete in minerals and fat soluble vitamins. Eating lots of eggs, avocado and nuts introduces lots of polyunsaturated fat into your diet. If I were you, I'd go on a diet of leaner red meats, whole milk, cook solely in coconut oil or grassfed butter/ghee and cycle fruits and lower GI starches (squashes and small sweet potatoes mainly) into my diet to improve insulin sensitivity. When you slowly become replete on the fat soluble vitamins A, D and K and you regularly consume sugar from whole foods, your glucose tolerance should improve. I recommend doing it with a blood glucose meter, though. Don't go eating pounds of mangoes and potatoes, but rather simply consume some fruit or squash along with a meal and slowly increase portions while decreasing fats simultaneously as your blood glucose numbers improve.

    I also recommend taking a supplement called "Raw Adrenal" and "Raw Thyroid" daily. You may also want to consider taking niacinamide and AVOID FISH OIL LIKE THE PLAGUE. You'll be hardpressed to find a person with heart disease or metabolic syndrome that isn't hypothyroid. I believe PUFA and hypothyroid is really the cause of most modern disease. Gluten grains and nutritional deficiencies are just icing on the cake.
    Choco, my body does not comply with your theory. My pre-diabetes, insulin resistance or whatever you want to call it, developed over a decade+ period of eating the type of diet you are recommending for me now. When I eat more than 20+/- carbs (GI does not seem to matter) my one hour postprandial exceeds 140. I have talked with many T1 and T2 diabetics who are successfully controlling BG by severely restricting carbohydrate as recommended by Dr Richard Bernstein. Do you actually know anyone who has improved insulin sensitivity by eating more sugar?
    Last edited by Artbuc; 04-15-2013 at 02:57 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    And you're going to fix it by eating a fatty diet free of carbohydrate? That only further slows your thyroid and introduces more PUFA into your system because sugar, starch and salt speed up your thyroid! You're doing the opposite of what you should be doing.
    I question the low carb - low metabolism perception, it seems to be more related to high PUFA's, just put up a thread to that effect.
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1160860

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Avoiding carbohydrate when you have blood glucose issues is just avoiding the problem. If you have metabolic syndrome, you're not going to get better simply cutting out 1/3 of the foods on Earth and exercising a much less efficient fat metabolism. If you have two fuel tanks on your vehicle and your first tank has a leak, you don't make the problem go away by simply using the second gas tank and ignoring the first. You fix the first.

    Get a blood glucose meter, fix your thyroid and cycle starch into your diet while monitoring the levels so you know when enough is enough. You may only be able to tolerate small quantities at first, but if you're not willing to go through the therapy you'll never fix the problem. Metabolic syndrome is at heart an overabundance of polyunsaturated fat and hypothyroidism. And you're going to fix it by eating a fatty diet free of carbohydrate? That only further slows your thyroid and introduces more PUFA into your system because sugar, starch and salt speed up your thyroid! You're doing the opposite of what you should be doing.
    What the hell are you goin on about?

    How does this ....


    "I agree with your doctor. Don't go monkeying with your thyroid if your not experiencing any of the signs/symptoms. Lab tests are only of use when they correlate with physical findings and patient history."

    Elicit a response about your personal views on VLC? I swear.

    And you really need to throw a big IMO after the above bolded portion considering that many of us, scientists, and various types of doctors have been studying this problem for years and would not dare such a bold statement as if it was fact.

    Its odd to me that you don't see that PUFA is getting the same exact treatment that you seem to detest when it comes to carbs. You would eliminate a whole group of fats based on some cherry picked studies, when the vast amount of data shows that PUFA from whole food source is quite health promoting.

    IMO the following are apt comparisons.

    Seed oils = sugar and refined grains

    Nuts, avocados, and fish = whole fruits
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-15-2013 at 04:04 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    I question the low carb - low metabolism perception, it seems to be more related to high PUFA's, just put up a thread to that effect.
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1160860
    No need to question it..... Its complete bunk. Low calorie = low metabolism. Just so happens many people on low carb are restricting calories to lose weight. Shocking, I know.

  5. #45
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    There was a well publicized study of 7th Day Adventists a number of years ago showing that the people who ate nuts had lower incidence of cardiovascular disease than the others:

    Adventist Health Studies - LLU Adventist Health Study

    As far as the low carb discussion, for a balanced discussion by someone who does not have a website that is designed to sell things, go to eatingacademy.com and spend some time there. The head of the Duke Metabolic Clinic is treating type II diabetes with carbohydrate restriction and gets excellent results.

    Your LDL is at first scary, but the followup discussion was not bad. If you have lost a lot of weight recently, it would not be surprising to have a temporary increase in total cholesterol and LDL-C; mobilizing fat out of your fat cells also mobilizes cholesterol in the fat cell membranes. I don't have time to look up the studies but I think if you are actively losing weight it might be a good idea to wait until you are more stable before getting too worried about LDL-C.

    also LDL-C is not a very good marker of risk compared to LDL particle count from Liposcience or Apo-B levels from a variety of places. But I think the same warning should apply if you're in the midst of weight loss.
    10/2/12: 169 lbs, 37"waist
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  6. #46
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    It may not be the nuts that were eaten, but what those that didn't eat nuts were eating instead or how they were living.
    Nuts are more often eaten by health conscious individuals.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmsmall View Post
    There was a well publicized study of 7th Day Adventists a number of years ago showing that the people who ate nuts had lower incidence of cardiovascular disease than the others:

    Adventist Health Studies - LLU Adventist Health Study

    As far as the low carb discussion, for a balanced discussion by someone who does not have a website that is designed to sell things, go to eatingacademy.com and spend some time there. The head of the Duke Metabolic Clinic is treating type II diabetes with carbohydrate restriction and gets excellent results.

    Your LDL is at first scary, but the followup discussion was not bad. If you have lost a lot of weight recently, it would not be surprising to have a temporary increase in total cholesterol and LDL-C; mobilizing fat out of your fat cells also mobilizes cholesterol in the fat cell membranes. I don't have time to look up the studies but I think if you are actively losing weight it might be a good idea to wait until you are more stable before getting too worried about LDL-C.

    also LDL-C is not a very good marker of risk compared to LDL particle count from Liposcience or Apo-B levels from a variety of places. But I think the same warning should apply if you're in the midst of weight loss.
    If you are talking to me, no my weight has been steady for at least 6 months. Attia has backed away from his strong LDL-P comments in his cholesterol series.

  8. #48
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    I was talking to you, yes. I don't have a great explanation for your LDL-C but I've heard that some people do elevate their LDL-C on low carb diets. (I do, just not nearly as much.)

    Thanks for the update on LDL-P, will look into it (in my nonexistent spare time...)
    10/2/12: 169 lbs, 37"waist
    Now: low 150's, 33" waist
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmsmall View Post
    I was talking to you, yes. I don't have a great explanation for your LDL-C but I've heard that some people do elevate their LDL-C on low carb diets. (I do, just not nearly as much.)

    Thanks for the update on LDL-P, will look into it (in my nonexistent spare time...)
    Thanks. I wasn't trying to be a smarta$$ by asking if you were talking to me...I just wanted to be sure. As far as I can determine, no studies exist which show very high HDL-C, eg 130, is heart healthy. Maybe it is, maybe not. I would bet my entire retirement savings that my super high LDL-C was a direct result of my very high cholesterol/saturated fat diet. The week before my blood was drawn I ate a lb of beef liverwurst, a dozen eggs and tons of coconut. I believe I am a dietary cholesterol hyper-absorber which apparently 15-20% of us are.

    One thing for sure, you can find multiple studies and case histories which prove whichever diet/nutrition/health theory you believe to be true.
    Last edited by Artbuc; 04-16-2013 at 08:37 AM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Already covered this earlier in the thread I thought. Quite simply nuts are not the exception to the well sourced and well stored rule. Just as much care has to be taken in choosing and storing nuts as any of your other food. If you go pain staking lengths to assure the quality and storage of your beef to prevent spoilage or contamination do the same for nuts and seeds. Nobody can convince me that these things are not fit for human consumption even in vast quantity as long as we are talking whole form. I take an evolutionary approach to this and nuts and seeds have made up a substantial portion of our diet for quite some time.
    I store whole, raw nuts in the fridge and nut meal (which I use extremely sparingly) in the freezer.

    Still, you can't guarantee two things:

    1.) How the nuts got to the store. They may be compromised before you even purchase them. Some of those tractor trailers get unbelievably hot, and who knows how long they've sat on the shelves or what the processing conditions were.

    2.) The oxidation rate when inside the human body.

    #2 worries me the most. We know that seed oils and fish oils oxidize rapidly upon ingestion. Whole, fresh fish seem to be protective against this, at least to a degree (I'm not sure how they compare to a very stable meat such as beef). I don't know how nuts would react. I'm assuming a whole walnut would be considerably more resistant to oxidation than isolated walnut oil, but is it 100% perfect? I doubt anything is. Everything we ingest oxidizes to some degree. I don't think it's possible to eat a single meal that won't result in some degree of free radical damage. I mean how can it? Aging is unavoidable. But I'd expect nuts to promote more damage than beef or coconut. How much? I have no idea, I'm just making educated guesses. My personal opinion is that nuts are one of the "least ideal" paleo foods, and I try and make them the smallest part of my diet.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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