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  1. #11
    yogi19270's Avatar
    yogi19270 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for replying to me, its definintely a mental thing, that second voice in my head, ive being dieting since i was 12 yrs old (currently 39) so those sneaky behaviours have had a long time to work! This is not a diet for me, its for long term health, i have bowel issues and since eating primal foods this has pretty much gone unless i slip up then its back for a day. In the last 2 years there has been 5 people around me that have battled cancer, 2 people unsuccessfully (3 people immediate family), thats my biggest fear.
    I guess i need to train the mind to focus on that rather than the side effect of eating healthy which is weight loss.
    Does anyone have ideas on how to "shift" the thought focus when that second voice gets talking? I try to talk to it at times (im sure people think im nutts) but its a big battle!

  2. #12
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    Hi Janie, can you give me some ideas on how you did this? I find i have an battle in my head quite often.
    Thanks, i appreciate your time

  3. #13
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    One thing to keep in mind is that often everything is not as it seems. So the cascade of events that started with you receiving a compliment is basically a pre-recorded script, of which you may only be consciously aware of the first and last steps.

    Often when dieters fall off the wagon and eat something they shouldn't, even just one taste of something that they have decided to deny themselves entirely, they go on a frantic binge ("Now that I did that I may as well eat everything in the house, even if it's stuff I don't want and don't like") and then blame themselves for gorging. But the voices inside their heads are actually trying to punish them for failing. ("You knew you shouldn't taste that but tasted it anyway. You don't deserve to be thin.") It is often the case that when people are aware what is happening they can break the cycle in any of many different ways.

    What do you really feel when you get a compliment? Is there an uneasiness you can't put your finger on? Is there a voice down deep saying, "You don't deserve this compliment because you haven't completely and permanently overcome your issues"? Or something else entirely?

  4. #14
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    janie is online now Senior Member
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    Yogi-
    I'm old enough to be your Mom and I fell into the trap you describe so many times, so if I can help you get out sooner, I'd be delighted.

    You are right that it is a mental thing, and eKatherine makes some excellent points in that regard. I lost weight on a variety of diets over the years but self sabotage was my downfall. It was always precipitated by people giving me compliments or my reaching some goal such as fitting into a particular size. I think I took this as a sign that I was done. It was an okay from the world to return to eating "normally" (i.e. SAD). This was mainly b/c I viewed diets as temporary and not a lifestyle change.

    So, the biggest change for me this time was holding this as a lifestyle change. I declared that this was it and that I was doing it for me and for my health. I said "this is how I eat now", a declaration that kept me going through many circumstances and still does. Declarations are powerful. Diminishing pants sizes and comments from others no longer had power in the face of my resolve.

    I began my losses following Atkins, and found it empowering to toe the line with the guidelines of the program. Having structure worked for me and eliminated the temptation of bad options. Everyone is different so a structure might not work for you as well as it did for me.

    When I was younger, I also think I failed b/c I found success threatening...I mean if I succeeded at weight loss, what the hell else was the world going to ask me to succeed at? I'd have to step out on the stage. I couldn't hide. And suddenly I got way more attention from men and I didn't know how to deal with it. I felt uncomfortable. When I'd gain back the weight it took the pressure off having to succeed at other life goals or romance. Fat was a kind of safety.

    I don't know if any of this is useful to you, but I wish you well!! Please feel free to ask questions if need be. I waited way too long to claim my own power in this regard and hope you won't wait that long.
    Starting Weight: 197.5
    Current Weight: 123
    Lost 75# eating low carb (20-40 g) and then MDA primal low carb. Tried many other options but only LC helped me lose weight and improve health. Now at a good weight, I find my body can tolerate a few more carbs but rarely go over 100 g.

  5. #15
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    I've been reading a book about habit. It seems habit is a feedback loop of craving (usually prompted by something) action, reward for satiating craving. If you keep step one and two but change the reward, eventually you can make a new habit. So for example, walking past the ice cream shop, causes a craving for ice cream. So you eat it and feel better. Alternative action: walk past the ice cream shop, crave ice cream, eat a piece of dark chocolate you've put in your bag ahead of time. Sometimes prompts aren't obvious so you've gotta make an effort to write down when you crave, what you were doing / feeling for you to know what to change. It takes some trial and error.

    I'm totally in the same boat though. I do so well during the week and then Friday roles around and I find myself at the bar, drinking something terrible for me. Good luck to us all. I'm trying the above approach.

  6. #16
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    Meditation is a good tool to observe your habits (and underlying cravings). Try a 10 day vipassana course and you should come back a bit wiser

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    Yogi-
    I said "this is how I eat now", a declaration that kept me going through many circumstances and still does. Declarations are powerful.
    This is fantastic, Janie. A positive declaration rather than "I don't eat this" or "I can't have that". I really like it.

    In a similar vein "I'm doing this for my health" would be more positive than "I'm scared of cancer".

    I'm become ever more of the opinion that you have to do this for yourself, not for what others think or say. Sometimes they will compliment you and other times they will try to undermine you. We need to learn to let all these comments just roll off and carry on according to our own convictions.

    From my experience so far, it does get easier the longer you stick with it because you begin to both love the food and the way you feel and they temptations become less tempting until they are either barely tempting at all, or easily managed within your personal 20%.
    Last edited by Annieh; 04-15-2013 at 03:45 AM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkJames View Post
    Meditation is a good tool to observe your habits (and underlying cravings). Try a 10 day vipassana course and you should come back a bit wiser
    Ahh
    Craving, aversion, expectations, disappointment, observe the sensations, pleasure, pain, observe the sensations.
    The endless chatter in this fickle brain, let it be, just continue to observe the sensations.


    To OP
    All good suggestions you have been given.

    We do not know the full magnitude of what you are actually dealing with,
    Is this cheat you have just a piece of cake, a whole cake or a week of eating cake?
    This point matters as to what approach you use to deal with the problem, just a piece, well maybe you just need to let it go, everyone has a bit of a cheat now and then. If it's the whole cake then it's a binge response and it may be a reaction to feelings of deprivation. If it lasts a week, then something more serious may be at play like depression, so the point is what is the actual magnitude of this cheat behaviour.

    Another thing to consider is the behavioural cycle, pleasure, regret and punishment.
    It may well be that the subconscious is holding onto the previous punishment, waiting for the next opportunity to satisfy the pleasure need, kind of like balancing the equation, it may well be that the cycle needs to be broken by not metering out punishment, but love to yourself, accepting you are not perfect and you will fall, but you will always try to become better, you may need to give yourself a positive affirmation for these situations, not to reinforce the behaviour, but to love yourself even if you aren't perfect. We like to think we practice this with others when they fall, but rarely give ourselves the same privileges.

    Hope you can find your way through this to a comfortable place.

  9. #19
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    I used to do the same thing and definitely found it helped to shift emphasis from diet to health. I also found that, as I realised how much better I feel on a primal diet I started self sabotaging less frequently. I suffered from really low energy for many years, but now I have energy to burn - NOTHING is worth going back on that for.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post

    When I was younger, I also think I failed b/c I found success threatening...I mean if I succeeded at weight loss, what the hell else was the world going to ask me to succeed at? I'd have to step out on the stage. I couldn't hide. And suddenly I got way more attention from men and I didn't know how to deal with it. I felt uncomfortable. When I'd gain back the weight it took the pressure off having to succeed at other life goals or romance. Fat was a kind of safety.
    This is a large part of my problem, and one that needs fighting with eyes wide open. It is too easy to slip back instead of doing the hard work of changing my attitudes about myself. But I'm learning.

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