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Thread: Lyle McDonald - Is he on the right track(s)? page 3

  1. #21
    Helen in Oz's Avatar
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    I dug up this thread because I was just pointed to Body Recomposition in response to my comment "fat doesn't make you fat, sugar does". (And the poster had the cheek to suggest that I wouldn't understand why I was wrong !! grrrrr!!!)

    Just scanning the article - (I wish these people would learn to write concisely) - this leapt out:

    "When you eat dietary fat, it’s primary fate is storage as its intake has very little impact on fat oxidation "
    - um, not my understanding. It's stored IF your insulin/blood sugar is high, right? Otherwise it's burned just fine as fuel.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...e-get-fat.html

    any further input on this article would be appreciated. I'm still assimilating all this stuff - I should know better than to get into an argument about it before I've grokked it fully. (grokked in the Heinleinian sense of the word...)

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helen in Oz View Post
    I dug up this thread because I was just pointed to Body Recomposition in response to my comment "fat doesn't make you fat, sugar does". (And the poster had the cheek to suggest that I wouldn't understand why I was wrong !! grrrrr!!!)

    Just scanning the article - (I wish these people would learn to write concisely) - this leapt out:

    "When you eat dietary fat, it’s primary fate is storage as its intake has very little impact on fat oxidation "
    - um, not my understanding. It's stored IF your insulin/blood sugar is high, right? Otherwise it's burned just fine as fuel.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...e-get-fat.html

    any further input on this article would be appreciated. I'm still assimilating all this stuff - I should know better than to get into an argument about it before I've grokked it fully. (grokked in the Heinleinian sense of the word...)
    Fat can be stored without insulin via the hormone ASP.

    http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.c...27s%20hard%201.

    I'm going to read the article you posted now.

    edit: great article. Just read under "How We Get Fat Part 3: Back to Nutrient Intake, Oxidation and Storage" and he explains it a lot more in depth.

    "Excess dietary protein increases protein oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat."

    That explains why I was having such a hard time losing weight when I was eating 200+ grams of protein.
    Last edited by rphlslv; 05-10-2010 at 09:57 PM.
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  3. #23
    Helen in Oz's Avatar
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    thanks. Excellent article. I'll have to re-read it. thank god for people who can both understand and explain the science!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helen in Oz View Post
    thanks. Excellent article. I'll have to re-read it. thank god for people who can both understand and explain the science!
    That led me to find this handbook of his

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...TVSBSIV2Gz1BsQ

    Very very good if you're in need of dropping those last 5 pounds (like me).
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  5. #25
    eva's Avatar
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    my issues with mr. mcdonald:
    1) he is all about cal in=cal out and hasent yet agreed to discuss entropy with me
    2) he is very much about low fat (those who are for saturated fat are all quacks and will suffer the consequences later in life - his words)
    3) he doesnt care much about inflammation - promoting grains, healthy seed oils, nightshades, dairy etc
    4) he likes to ignore the black swans
    5) he likes to be demoting in discussions
    6) he deletes lots of comments that actually take some good science up against his views.
    7) i think he is much more knowledgeable than Matt Stone but still up the same alley.
    challenge yourself
    i blog here http://theprimalwoman.blogspot.com/

  6. #26
    eva's Avatar
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    about ASP:
    ASP can increase LPL activity, making fatty acids available for transport into the fat cells. It also increases the expression of glucose transporters in fat cells, allowing them to bring in the glucose required to store fat. So ASP plays roughly the same role as insulin in fat storage, but rather than being generated by the pancreas in response to carbohydrates, is generated by the fat cells themselves. Better yet, ASP stimulates the production of triglycerides inside the fat cells. But what causes ASP to be secreted? >> chylomicrons. When fat cells are exposed to chylomicrons they generate lots of ASP. Exposing the same cells to fatty acids, VLDL, HDL, LDL or glucose gives little ASP response.

    What are chylomicrons? they are the first step in transporting dietary fats into the body. When you eat a lot of fat, you make chylomicrons causing the fat cells to make more ASP, leading to fat storage. But the chylomicrons only hang around for a short time, being converted in the liver to VLDL. The receptor for VLDL does increase LPL activity, but does not stimulate glucose transport into fat cells. So the fat in VLDL is available to be used for energy, because the LPL frees the fatty acids for transport across cell membranes. But without some other hormonal signal (e.g. insulin), rather little of this fat can be stored in adipose tissue.

    About ASP and FATSTORAGE vs ASP and OBESTITY:
    i think ill be quoting Dr Harris here "The human body is a non-steady-state open system, both thermodynamically and in terms of conservation of mass. That is also why saying things like "calories in equal calories out" or quoting the first law of thermodynamics only proves you understand neither biology or physics at a basic level."

    your cells and energy intake-release dont work like an on-off switch. it is a constant progress taking place every microsecond in every fat cell. It would be ignorant to say you cannot burn fat when insulin is present (there is always insulin present as long as you are alive) as it is ignorant to say that you cant store fat when insulin levels are low - so i guess thats where ASP steps in. It would also be ignorant to say we cannot store fat without carbs in our diet.
    Here is where i get to my point: all the research ive read about ASP deals with FAT METABOLISM NOT OBESITY!!!
    Every single human being and animal (even a 4% bf bodybuilder) is storing fat. having more than 0% fat in your body is by definition storing fat. Otherwise a zerocarber would eventually be 0% bf and die.
    So OFCOURSE there are mechanisms (ASP is probably just a part of it) that allow us to store fat without dietary carbs (otherwise also the carnivores of animal kingdom would be 0%bf = dead). The problem is confusing OBESITY with fat storage.
    Sorry for the long rant but have heard enough about the ASPmiracle.
    challenge yourself
    i blog here http://theprimalwoman.blogspot.com/

  7. #27
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    wow eva great post!!! i knew about ASP vs insulin but i never 'got it' and now i 'get it' haha- it would be dumbfounded to say he body cant store a in an excess of anything carbs or fat, ad this makes the point. overeatting anything isnt really a great idea

  8. #28
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    Lyle is shear genius. His books are worth every penny in my opinion. Just because he has a different opinion then Mark, doesn't mean his methods don't work. Because I can personally guarantee you they do.

    People just need to start realizing that the calorie in/out model is law, it's just that low carb based diets may improve the calorie out, and decrease the calorie in, while also allowing for greater fat mobilization. What that means is 3500 (actually 3600) calories is a pound, but how much of a pound lost or gain is distributed between is fat, water, and muscle.

    In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

  9. #29
    eva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGYnutrition View Post

    People just need to start realizing that the calorie in/out model is law
    please explain how in an open unstable system (as in a human being) that is law. Im shure as you state its a law you refer to the first law of thermodynamics. yes thats a law for closed simple systems. how about the second law of thermodynamics? the one thats supposed to explain energy for open systems in conjunction with the first law? Or maybe you have a way of calculating enthropy for open systems and incorporating that ito the calculations of BMR and such. Id like to hear about that.
    challenge yourself
    i blog here http://theprimalwoman.blogspot.com/

  10. #30
    eva's Avatar
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    ive also been thinking about the futile cycles in ATP production from ADP. if cal in = cal out. then that has to be false...
    challenge yourself
    i blog here http://theprimalwoman.blogspot.com/

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