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Thread: Bacteria in intestines reacts to red meat causing heart disease.

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  1. #1
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    Bacteria in intestines reacts to red meat causing heart disease.

    Very interesting article. Apparently the real culprit in heart disease was not fat, they proposed instead that it was a little-studied chemical that is burped out by bacteria in the intestines after people eat red meat. It is quickly converted by the liver into yet another little-studied chemical called TMAO that gets into the blood and increases the risk of heart disease. A little disconcerting if true.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/he...?emc=eta1&_r=0

  2. #2
    I think they obviously had an agenda beforehand, but I want to know how this TMAO does it's dastardly job. Or is it the CAFO meat?

    Here is the exerpt:

    The researchersí theory, based on their laboratory studies, is that TMAO enables cholesterol to get into artery walls and also prevents the body from excreting excess cholesterol.
    Last edited by stoney56; 04-07-2013 at 11:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stoney56 View Post
    I think they obviously had an agenda beforehand, but I want to know how this TMAO does it's dastardly job. Or is it the CAFO meat?

    Here is the exerpt:

    The researchers’ theory, based on their laboratory studies, is that TMAO enables cholesterol to get into artery walls and also prevents the body from excreting excess cholesterol.
    All of which is still under the assumption that cholesterol is the cause and therefore our enemy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    All of which is still under the assumption that cholesterol is the cause and therefore our enemy.
    I'm not sure that's exactly what they're saying though.

    Like Dr. Attia's post at MDA asserts, when those LDL particles violate the endothelium and oxidize, that's when inflammation and atherosclerosis begin. So cholesterol is not per se bad, but some lipoproteins are certainly part of the puzzle of CHD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stoney56 View Post
    I think they obviously had an agenda beforehand, but I want to know how this TMAO does it's dastardly job. Or is it the CAFO meat?

    Here is the exerpt:

    The researchers’ theory, based on their laboratory studies, is that TMAO enables cholesterol to get into artery walls and also prevents the body from excreting excess cholesterol.
    Agreed. I'll be interested to here Mark's and Robb's feedback on this.

  6. #6
    I know Matt LaLonde has advocated using grass fed beef as his goto meat, I would imagine he has considered this as well. Here is a wiki chart of carnitine in food (some are questionable as to their status as being "food", yes I'm looking at you macaroni).

    Carnitine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I'd like to see a comparison of grass fed to grain fed levels, but I doubt anyone has done that analysis.

  7. #7
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    What got me is that they said they ran this study to confirm the evidence... from other previous badly-run and misinterpreted studies.

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    Carnitine is pretty high in red meat compared to other meats, something like 20 times higher. I had a bottle of it in supplement form a long time ago but it didn't do much from what I remembered.

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    The question in this is:

    "What is the firestarter that causes our body to send the fireman, i.e. cholesterol, to fix things up ?"

    Cholesterol does not sneak itself inside the artery wall for the fun of causing damages. It is sent to fix things because something messes up in this area. The root-cause of the messing-up is to be tracked and eliminated!!

  10. #10
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    Carnitine does many great things for our bodies, that's a fact. You find many articles on it being heart healthy including heart muscle healthy. If it is in fact true that Carnitine turns into TMAO and TMAO causes plaque build up leading to heart attacks then that is bad. How much TMAO does one need to get heart disease? Is it truly a marker? Does it truly cause plaque? Carnitine levels in foods surprised me. Eggs have less levels than rice and bread. Cottage cheese has less than avocados. Butter, whole milk, chicken and fish have less than tempeh. Bacon (23.3 mg per 100g) is almost the same as tempeh (19.5 mg per 100g). So are the levels in Tempeh and bacon going to cause problems for both vegans and bacon eaters? I could not find how much is in organ meats. If by bad luck we have bacteria that turns high levels into artery damaging TMAO then it seems that we can go on eating organs, butter, bacon, avocados, coconut oil, fish, chicken and for vegans tempeh. I guess my main questions are: does TMAO cause problem for a fact and if yes, how much carnitine is needed to create enough TMAO to cause problem? I think I just rambled
    Last edited by Ouaouaron; 04-08-2013 at 05:01 AM.
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