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Thread: Bacteria in intestines reacts to red meat causing heart disease. page 5

  1. #41
    Knifegill's Avatar
    Knifegill is offline Senior Member
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    Again, avoid inflammation, stand all day and it doesn't matter how much plaque you have.


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  2. #42
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    Or be a mouse on carnitine supplements. Heheheh

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
    Vegans tend to be young and on the whole, have more of a reputation for eating some junky foods and processed fake meats. Vegetarians on the whole tend to be older and more health conscious (like the 7th day adventists) than vegans who are mostly doing it for ethical reasons or from the influence of orgs like PETA.
    At least I qualified my statement with "IME". You just state yours like absolute fact.

    IME, those willing to take it to the extreme of vegan as opposed to just vegetarian are more committed to it morally and are more likely to be the "clean living" ones as opposed to the vegetarians eating cheese puffs.

    In any case, it was just a speculation about a confounding variable. This was shown to be a problem in the Framingham nurses study where the health consciousness of the study population skewed the data.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouaouaron View Post
    It is a bit confusing why the Vegans do not have the bacteria. Has anybody seen a level of Carnitine intake that creates a happy environment for the bacteria and triggers the creation of TMAO? 100g of Tempeh has about the same Carnitine as pork. Vegans and Vegetarians also often take Carnitine supplements. There is something missing from the story/data.
    Good point. So the carnitine is not the problem. The bacteria that reacts with it is. But that could be there as FW points out, due to many lifestyle factors and other contaminants. Given that this study is based on
    poster children for SAD eating (people who are "at risk" for heart attacks) I think there are plenty of confounding variables not being considered here.

  5. #45
    BeatMD's Avatar
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  6. #46
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    I tried to download the PDF yesterday so I could read it, but it turns out it takes longer than a day for a study to show up on Google Scholar.

    Lazy people...

  7. #47
    Omni's Avatar
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    I suppose the obvious question is:
    Are the elevated carnitine levels a protective response in dealing with an unidentified detrimental factor?

    ie think Cholesterol:CVD Hypothesis, Corrolation does not prove Causation.

    When Age & Lifestyle (health) matched Vegi's are no healthier and sometimes even sicker than omnivores.

  8. #48
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  9. #49
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    Paul Jaminet just wrote a good piece on this: Lessons From The Latest Red Meat Scare | Perfect Health Diet

    The lessons of this study are:

    Donít eat a high-sugar, high-flour, low-fiber diet.
    Do eat natural whole foods that have the kind of fiber we and our probiotic gut flora co-evolved eating; mainly, resistant starch from in-ground starches like potatoes and soluble fiber from fruits and vegetables.
    Donít eat excessive amounts of meat. As we noted in the book, excess protein is available to gut bacteria for fermentation and that produces a number of toxic byproducts.
    Do eat PHD levels of meat Ė one-half to one pound per day. This level of meat consumption will provide healthful and nourishing amounts of protein, choline, and carnitine, and will not cause any harm if accompanied by PHD levels of healthy plant foods.

  10. #50
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