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    Beauty's Avatar
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    (Raw) Dairy, Leaky Gut and Opiates

    Primal Fuel
    So, I've been really ambivalent about the dairy I've been consuming. On the one hand, the raw cheese, cream, and milk makes me feel full and deeply satisfied, like it quenches a deep need within my soul.

    On the other, I am feeling really, really terrible, and I don't know if it's the dairy (in addition to the thyroid issue I have).
    -weight gain
    -like there is a muffled scream inside me
    -very tired
    -inflammation
    -brain fog

    I should point out that I have a leaky gut, which I'm trying to heal. The recommended diets for leaky guts include removing dairy and grains and sugar. At first I cautiously re-introduced dairy, but now it seems that I might be having trouble with it. Or is it just my untreated Hashimoto's???

    I've been searching the internets and found some information about how especially for people with leaky guts, the protein casein in milk gets broken down into morphine molecules which pass into the brain of folks like me. I read one person's post about how going off dairy was harder than quitting smoking. Although I've never smoked, I believe that this is the case with me as well. Every time I decide to quit dairy now, even the thought of it causes tears to well up in my eyes. I believe I am addicted. I don't know what to do. Should I quit cold turkey? Or ease off a little bit per day? Also, when I've tried to quit dairy, I inevitably start eating other foods which are bad for me, like endless amounts of smoothies or nuts and raisins (fruit and nuts make me feel worse than dairy). Also, I don't care if there is some opiate effect. Feeling good is good, as long as there aren't any more adverse effects...

    Alternatively to all this focus on dairy, it could be eggs or coffee which is causing me to feel bad. Or maybe all of the above?!?!

    Help?
    Last edited by Beauty; 05-06-2010 at 06:32 AM. Reason: spelling

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    andalus's Avatar
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    I personally would go cold turkey and fall back to eating simply (veggies and meat). I would then reintroduce small amounts of food from different sources this would help in tracing if I have a particular issue with anything. The only dairy I have ended up eating is clotted and double cream, it pretty much has no casein or lactose in it. I think people tolerate dairy to differing amounts so listening to your body is a good idea as only you will really know if something makes you feel better or worse.

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    Beauty's Avatar
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    Mmmmmmm, clotted and double cream! Maybe I'll try sticking to the low-lactose varieties for awhile, like these and homemade yoghurt. Sorry for such a long rant, I was experience an episode of the effects of whatever it was causing it! But still, I appreciate any more advice or information about dairy in general. Raw especially.

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    From my understanding, if opiates are being released, it is because you are having an adverse reaction, but it results in the "good feeling", as your body releases endorphins when under stress.

    I would say, don't leave nuts and raisins laying around, drop the dairy, and push through. I mean, can you imagine how good you would feel if you were right? That should be your drive.

    In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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    I would give a strong second to omitting the dairy. I can tolerate cream in my coffee, but daily consumption of any other dairy for me really drives up my c-reactive protein. Having been down the path of gut issues, positive markers for celiac (even ttg), I can say that there is hope.

    Keep in mind that grok wouldn't have had additional saturated fat to add to food. There would only have been wild meat, which overall is very low in total fat, has an Ω3:Ω6 ratio of at least 1:1. in the Ω3's = DHA was actually present greater amounts than was EPA as DHA was taken up via the green plants upon which the animals would graze. And in fish, DHA levels are even higher due to the algae ingestion.

    Grok cerainly would use the entire animal, including the fat, but there simply wasn't extra fat to add to food. If naturally fermented foods, wild meat, wild fish, wild produce, bone broths, and on occasion, *all* organ meats from the wild animals are not part of your diet, supplementation will be necessary to supply nutrients that would have been supplied by those foods: zinc, possibly iron, definitely calcium, magnsium, additional antioxidants, DHA and some EPA are a few of the things your body may be needing in order to heal.

    On the days that you don't get midday, summer sun, full body exposure, to the point just before a burn would occur, you'll need to supplement D. How much? It's hard to say. 1000 IU/25 lbs/body weight/day is not too much for a person who works indoors during the week, wear clothes that cover most of the body, stays indoors midday for any reason, seeks shade etc. A person who gets signficiant 'incidental' exposure or even purposeful fully body exposure but during the am or afternoon will still need signficiant D supplemention but not 1000 IU per 25lbs body weight. the only way to really know is to test.

    I can say that after a few years of tracking D for about 100 people, the one thing that has consistently suprised folks, is just how much they need and how long it can take D levels to rise upon instituting supplementation (3-4 months) unless megadosing in the initial weeks - ie taking 3000 IU per 25 lbs body weight per day for about 4 weeks, then dropping down to 1000 IU per 25 lbs.

    in short:
    take lots of probioitcs (first thing in am, last thing in pm - empty stomach ideally)
    probiotics comparison chart
    digestive enzymes with meals
    here's my list of supplements - links included (multi, zinc, d,enzymes etc)
    produce produce produce - how much produce in a primal lifestyle?


    Edit: removed potassium and D information. please see link in sig line.
    Last edited by cillakat; 10-11-2010 at 11:01 AM.

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    Hi Beauty!

    As a fellow hypothyroid, just wanted to tell you that every one of those symptoms is a thyroid symptom.

    Even with treatment (meds), I still had to deal with my super low Vitamin D levels, and I know I have digestive issues still. I did an elimination diet last year in November, and removed all dairy from my diet for a month (among other things like beans, and the obvious soda, alcohol, etc). My bloating went away in 3 days and in 4 weeks I lost 5 pounds-- I hadn't done anything but gain or stay the same for almost 5 years.

    My suggestion would be to totally do without it for a month and see how your body feels/reacts. Then you can add in one thing at a time to see how it registers... ex, cream for a week... then maybe try yogurt, whatever you think are your "wish i could eat" foods to see if they really do agree with you or not. I would not try to ease off... like Carbs/Sugar, etc, your cravings won't completely go away that way. You're better off sucking it up for a few days or a week and then having the cravings GONE. But do make sure you're getting enough food and fats in general so that you're satiated. Maybe try some non-foody rewards... a good book, something like that, to reward yourself for the no dairy! Just some thoughts...

    I know that for me cheese is totally addictive, stalls my weight loss, clogs me up, etc. Yogurt is okay in moderation, I don't have immediate effects, but can overdo super easy so have to be careful. Cream is awesome and doesn't seem to affect me at all.
    "Boy I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals" - Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

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    Wow, Cillakat! Thanks for all the info! I've been really wondering about how much vitamin D to supplement with. It looks like I need to increase it by 5 times what I've been taking. This adjustment should be good for my Hashimoto's too.


    I understand the importance of non-starchy veggies. I usually have a BAS three times a day. I'm around 140 pounds, though, and I believe I only need around 100g of protein per day. With that and the veggies, I will not be satisfied nor have consumed enough energy without adding extra saturated fat. That being said, I bet that would not be the case if I drank bone broths throughout the day, which I know I should be doing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beauty View Post
    I've been really wondering about how much vitamin D to supplement with. It looks like I need to increase it by 5 times what I've been taking. This adjustment should be good for my Hashimoto's too.


    I usually have a BAS three times a day. I'm around 140 pounds, though, and I believe I only need around 100g of protein per day. With that and the veggies, I will not be satisfied nor have consumed enough energy without adding extra saturated fat. That being said, I bet that would not be the case if I drank bone broths throughout the day, which I know I should be doing!
    At 100g protein consumption, it's very likely that you're when consider potassium to sodium ratio and potassium to calorie ratio, you're still coming up short in potassium. Sufficient potassium from produce to balance the sodium from the extra meat consumption may require additional measures - ie tomato/tomato products at every meal, homemade veggie broths etc.

    potassium intake estimates in an evolutionary environment range from 5mg K:1mg Na to 16mg K: 1mg Na. Regardless, most of us aren't getting enough potassium.

    Think of magnesium and potassium as the relaxors and calcium and sodium as the contractors. We need both - but it's all about ratio just like it is wrt Ω3 and Ω6.

    Vitamin D is known to
    1)decrease CRP (c reactive protein)
    2)prevent - and in some cases treat -autoimmune disorders.

    Agressively replete your D. Very agressively - both through supplements and sun. Some literature was just published regarding MS and vitamin D levels. Someone found a mechanism through which UV radiation itself benefits ms sypmptoms - so d supplementation alone won't do it. It'll take midday, unprotected *summer*, sun...

    Guess I have to get my pasty white, sun protective, sun avoidant self outside.

    Best,
    Katherine

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    Yes, I believe I am low in potassium. I am therefore taking a supplement as well as using a 'low salt' alternative to salt and contains potassium.

    I have a friend who was just diagnosed with MS. Do you happen to have a link for that literature about vit D levels, cillakat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beauty View Post
    So, I've been really ambivalent about the dairy I've been consuming. On the one hand, the raw cheese, cream, and milk makes me feel full and deeply satisfied, like it quenches a deep need within my soul.

    On the other, I am feeling really, really terrible, and I don't know if it's the dairy (in addition to the thyroid issue I have).
    -weight gain
    -like there is a muffled scream inside me
    -very tired
    -inflammation
    -brain fog

    I should point out that I have a leaky gut, which I'm trying to heal. The recommended diets for leaky guts include removing dairy and grains and sugar. At first I cautiously re-introduced dairy, but now it seems that I might be having trouble with it. Or is it just my untreated Hashimoto's???

    I've been searching the internets and found some information about how especially for people with leaky guts, the protein casein in milk gets broken down into morphine molecules which pass into the brain of folks like me. I read one person's post about how going off dairy was harder than quitting smoking. Although I've never smoked, I believe that this is the case with me as well. Every time I decide to quit dairy now, even the thought of it causes tears to well up in my eyes. I believe I am addicted. I don't know what to do. Should I quit cold turkey? Or ease off a little bit per day? Also, when I've tried to quit dairy, I inevitably start eating other foods which are bad for me, like endless amounts of smoothies or nuts and raisins (fruit and nuts make me feel worse than dairy). Also, I don't care if there is some opiate effect. Feeling good is good, as long as there aren't any more adverse effects...

    Alternatively to all this focus on dairy, it could be eggs or coffee which is causing me to feel bad. Or maybe all of the above?!?!

    Help?
    Hello Beauty

    I read your post re dairy and leaky gut. I have some info for you and it gets worse. If you have leaky gut you need to remove lectins from your diet as well. Lectins are in just about everything with wheat germ agglutinin being just about the worst. After much research I think everyone should quit the wheat. The only grain I eat is white rice. It's not all that nutritious but it's a good filler-upperer. The lectins for rice are mainly in the husk so white is about as good as it gets for lectin reduction. Also, eggs and coffee both contain lectins. The nightshades such as tomatos and potatos are also bad news. There's a pile of info on the web and some vids on youtube. Regarding the Vitamin D I can recommend a fantastic video: search Vitamin D and Prevention of Chronic Diseases

    regards

    arch

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